Marxism in a nutshell

Marxism in a nutshell
I lived under Marxism and Capitalism the difference is night and day.

Left-wingers own nothing, they have zero freedom, they live in poverty and they work----for what? If you can't own anything or go anywhere what is the point of living?

Capitalism---I work, get paid, buy house, car, boat, go on vacation, I am free to go anywhere I choose, spend the money I make from working anyway I wish.

Which is better for the worker? Duh!

you're delusional if you claim to have ever lived under 'marxism.'
i'm guessing 'red china'?
if that's the case, i may have to laugh at you even more.


you speak of such success for the workers under kapitalism...
yet you disregard the 36 million who are in poverty.
and the 13 million children who share the same fate.
you see, the only way you can obtain your homes, cars, boats, etc is at the cost of another.
the only common basis for kapitalism to function is through exploitation.
why else do amerikan corporations have to outsource their businesses in the first place if kapitalism is so powerful?
... because it's easier to exploit the workers of developing countries than their own.
that's how your system balances out... in order for someone to gain, someone else has to lose.
of course, this all necessary to establish the world kapitalism agenda.

[edit on 12-15-2004 by echelon]

Well I see you are getting your information from a reliable source Khrushchev, the number one Left-winger of our time, who despised democracy and Capitalism because it made Communism look very very bad in comparison.

America’s “so call” poor live better than the middle class in ALL Left-wing countries.

People like you probably don’t get out much and only have lies and propaganda to go on but people in American and other free countries that travel can see what is going on in the real world.

There are no free lunches----unless you steal someone else’s, as did Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Fidel, and countless other Left-wing dictators.

However, the American taxpayer provides free breakfast, lunch, dinner, housing, transportation, clean water, medical, dental and a host of other freebies to the so called poor.

as usual, incorrect. what about sweden? best social democracy on earth.



personal attacks? my my, sleeper. why get so defensive if your argument is as strong as you think?



hitler was left wing? are you out of your mind?



really? then why are the poor still complaining? why are there poor in the first place if they get all this free stuff? damn, maybe I should become poor so I could get all this free stuff!


[edit on 15-12-2004 by General Zapata]

sleeper...please inform as to why you decided to take an already debunked and generally poor quality post out of Slug Fest and put it in the Socialism forum?

Don't start new threads on exact things that are already being discussed...
politics.abovetopsecret.com...

Hitler was a Socialist, look it up in the history books----there are many written about him. He hated Communism----but to me they are one and the same.

Why do the poor complain, first of all I don't consider them poor and I called them "so-called". they complain for the same reason that many rich kids complain, because they are spoiled----they don't have to work and still have what the working class has----less dignity.

And that's the problem with our welfare system, like you said--- might as well be poor and be taken care of.

Under Communism those people would be taken out and shot---Capitalism is a softy---they take care of those who don't want to take care of themselves.

Perhaps you should consider changing sides----the benefits under Capitalism are very generous.

My subject is about Socialism, so this must be the place to discuss it.

Sleeper, Firstly Europe is a very left winged place, and generally the standard of living there is higher than in the USA... so your remark about your poor living better than the middle class in ALL left wing countries is so off the mark you nearly hit yourself in the ass.

Hitler was a facsist, and extreme RIGHT idealology... maybe the American history books say he's socialist because they just want to make the left look bad... but the european books, and the books from just about anywhere else in the world will say hitler was a right winged politician...

please tell me which marxist country you lived in... in fact.. .please tell me what true marxsist countries there are left...

You also seem driven by material wealth and seem to think people cant be happy without money and possesions... untrue... many people in capatalist countries are led to believe this, but possesion and wealth only cause more problems and actually make people want more, thus making them lesss satisfied in the long run...

your argument is full of holes, and will be debunked here as it was the last time you posted it. any system that is run on material wealth and greed, is a crappy system in my books... that covers capatalism.

sleeper, I think I have diagnosed your problem. Every label for a group of people or ideological standpoint you use (ie socialist, capitalist, fascist) is referring to the wrong thing! Why else would you think that Hitler was socialist? Maybe someone was fooling you all this time, or maybe you just learned it wrong, but this is definitely your problem.

You are correct Europe is left-wing and that is where I lived. That’s also why they don’t want to claim Hitler as Left-wing, so they placed him far to the right.

The Left is very powerful in America, if anything the history books would be slanted to favor everything Left----Left-wing American Academia has been rewriting history for the last thirty years to favor you lefties---but I think you know that.

I’m not driven by material wealth---I’m driven to stop Left-wing lies.

BTW, I could use some money in my fight for truth----I’m fighting against one of the worlds riches Left-wing machines, moveOn----they have millions perhaps billions of those nasty Capitalist dollars in their bank account----I have scarcely enough to pay the rent.

Do they have libraries where you live? I know you don't want to spend money on books---go to the library or better yet get off this board long enough to do a search on the web---there is all kinds of info on Hitler.

Or here is one book (it’s a big book over 800 pages) "Hitler a Study in tyranny" By Alan Bullock, 1962

BTW if you lived in Capitalist America there is a library on every block (almost), free and you could even get movies and all the Left-wing books your little heart desires. (Left-wing countries would never give you both sides)

the fact that you would associate hitler with the left wing shows your credibility.
the elite have formulated a variety of flavors of socialism to disrupt the working class movement.
the former german nazi party followed national socialism...
... equivalent to nationalism... which is what the amerikan neo-cons advocate today.


your charities and gov't handouts are meaningless.
they are only temporary solutions to permanent problems.
meaning... the problems will always be there... if you feed them today... they'll still be hungry tomorrow.
the only real solution is to reverse the system so it works for all.
it may be contradictory to popular (neo-con) beliefs, but humans are not inherently lazy.
they want to work and earn a living... and travel... and learn new things.
it is kapitalism that won't allow this.
it is kapitalism that is responsible for not being able to provide employment for everyone.
it is kapitalism that is responsible for keeping them this way.
and they give them a bowl of soup to keep them from complaining... thinking they've made a real difference?


...



[edit]
oh yeah... let me give it another shot...
... you're one of those religious nut jobs who has been persecuted by their gov't, so you're seeking asylum in amer-land?
... and now you have to kiss their @rse, eh?

[edit on 12-16-2004 by echelon]

I have no religious beliefs---but I am good at identifying bull #.

And the left is full of it.

You lefties aren't going to be happy until you make the rest of the world as miserable as yourselves.

Poverty exists only because of Marxism, Communism, and Socialism---you don't need to be a rocket scientist to know that, and its all verifiable.

Billions of American dollars leave this country every single month to provide aid to the countries left in ruin by Left-wing dictatorships.

And there are no American poor (in comparison to the real poor found only in Left-wing countries, mostly Third world.

Socialism was horrific, is horrific, and will always be horrific---no matter how much you lefties sugar coat it.


[edit on 16-12-2004 by sleeper]

Aaah, we have a good one here.

I think this is one of those fellows to whom anything bad is communist/left-wing.

Hitler was a Nationalist, he hated everyone and teh wealthy who suuported him got lots, while the poor got worse.

I think sleeper votes Bush if im correct becasue Bush hates the commies, without even understanding them.

So Sleeper, would you rather be free but starving on the streets with no food or home, or "oppresed" but with food and a home?

Communism provides what is neccesary for all that want to work, and those who don't live in labour camps, as they are harming the whole nation by draining recourses if left out in the public life, but in these camps they can still provide. Capitalism provides for those who are willing to do whatever is necessary to get what they want; Exploit foreign Labourers for nearly no pay, stab colleuges in the back, fiddle the books. If you try to live honestly, then, you tend to be poor or end up in debt.

Yes, its your opinion, Argue it too. But... Hitler a lefty? A Nationalist, yes, but the Nazi's abbandonned all their Socialist points...

you said hitler was socialist

you conveniently left out the 'nationalist' part of his description

hitler was a Nationalist-Socialist, or Nazi

and yes, in case you didnt know that is where the term Nazi comes from.

and by the way, capitalism is one of the main reasons why africa is such a screwed up place. the drive for profits (a capitalist trait), is the reason the US and Europe destroy hundreds of thousands of tons of food (like grain and such) each year, rather than distribute it among the starving, and why pharmaceutical giants try to sell AIDS medicine at prices normal africans cant afford, and why ruthless gun retailers continue selling guns to countries that have seen decades of intense violence

and dont get me started on oil. Rumsfield, a ruthless corporate gangster (aka Supa-capitalist) had links with exxon if i remember correctly.

oh dear... and he just aided in the MURDER of in the region of a hundred thousand INNOCENT iraqis. just to make a quick buck

also (and with no offence intended to any americans reading this) i would like to say that the myth about America being the richest nation is a load of crap. many of her citizens are below the poverty line. i have also heard that the US has large debts, most of which are conveniently un-announced

Sleeper most of the poverty today is in countries that never have been leftist... and the countries that are leftist and are in poverty are only like that coz the USA feels intimidated by them and places trade embargos on them.

Most pverty striken countries are poverty striken because they are exploited by big multi national corporations who come in and steal their resources and reap all the profits, while paying the workers and governments of the country a pittance to allow them in... it sickens me to see people exploiting other people in such a way so they can have more money than they know what to do with, while there are people starving to death in countries that have huge amounts of natural resources, but are raped of them by the developed western countries.

Also your complete lack of understanding and knowledge of basic history makes me laugh sleeper... and in america there is a huge amount of bias against the left, why do you think socialist and communist are such dirty words in the USA... coz the media and the governments make them seem like such evils... when in reality it is capitalism and nationalism that are the evils of this planet

I don't take anybodies word for anything---I travel to lots of places---I see with my own eyes what is going on----the rape is being done by the Left-wing governments of those lands---who then blame America for all their problems---it is easy to hate America because it is so free and prosperous. The people who are trapped in these Left-wing countries----mostly uneducated believe their slave masters because they don’t know any better.

You are either one of those leaders or one of those slaves that have no choice, no freedom, no hope and no way of ever knowing the truth for yourself.

There is no good Communism, Socialism, and Marxism, they are liars and tyrants.

You said it all when you said "you heard" they say all Moslems should make their way to Mecca at least once in their life time.

All you poor blind Lefties should be allowed to come and see America for yourselves at least once in your life time---they will not let you because it would be difficult to go back to your slums once you’ve seen America.

America is a fantastic place were the vast majority of people live better than kings did---the people you hear complain are mostly in jail or are spoiled rotten--they hate to see so many happy people. There is always a rotten apple in the barrel.

Sorry that you are missing out.

Absolutely spot on! I can't believe this actually needs to be explained to someone in this day and age who claims to be enlightened.

I pretty much stopped reading Sleepers comments the second he referred to Hitler as "left-wing".

That's the funniest thing I've heard in a long while...

Apparently sleeper is only following his grandfather's "definition" of communism/socialism.

I don't think he has ever read any of Karl Marx.

Although I am not a pure marxist, I pertain to socialist ideas.