Marxism in a nutshell

What is Socialism---the state controls the means of production---basically they own the industries.

Hitler is called a Socialist by many writers, I didn�t originate it, however, Hitler controlled all the industry in Germany, and there was no free enterprise once he came to power---that is Socialism.

I don't blame the Left for not wanting to claim Hitler---but that doesn�t change history, Hitler was a Lefty.

Sleeper i have travelled extensively and i have seen many countries. I live in a right winged country (but seeing as its not as right winged as the US i guess it must be a communist country)...

Your opinion of left winged seems to be anywhere that is poor must be left winged... some of the wealthiest nations in Europe are leftist countries... and the US isnt as great a place to live as you like to think, they have never been allocated the honour of being the best country to live in... that i believe has gone to norway (a leftist country i believe, correct me if i'm wrong... someone other than sleeper correct me, someone who knows what they're talking about) and even australia was above america in these ratings... so your super-right winged, super great country isnt as great as you like to think it is...

The reason there is so much poverty in many african nations is that there is no work and there is no system to distribute wealth so that people may live basically... in a true leftist system no-one is left poor but no-one can become extremely wealthy... but extreme wealth is really just greed disguised... why do you need so much money, why do you need 2 SUV's when two hatchbacks will do the same job. Why do you need to focus so much on material wealth, when there is so much more to life than money and possesions? The problem is people put the economy over other factors, and in my eyes the economy is the least most important thing in running a country.. .human rights, the environment, keeping good international relations, and aid are the most important...

and one more thing... you can try and call hitler a lefty all you want, but anyone who has studied high school history can tell you, the NAZI's were a right winged party... you can read whatever writings you want... but the facts remain the same... ask any ex-NAZI they'll tell you the same... why do you think he hated communism so much and respected the US and Britain so much? hmmm hmmm beacuse he was right winged himself and could relate more to the Brits and the Yanks

[edit on 16-12-2004 by specialasianX]

not to mention that many amerikan kapitalist venturers had invested their money directly into nazi germany...

Sleeper, I have been to America. We drove through terrible slums and poverty, then we drove through Rich places, huge houses, luxury cars.

Thats freedom and prosperous? Only for those who abuse the system or are born rich.

Soo, your DENYING that US Industry and produces get their products produced for very little by exploiting thrid world workers? Let's see who's REALY blind then.

Please, you claim the "Lefties" paint a pretty picture of things, look at what your trying to do with the US, it is almost sad, your saying its so much better but denying its problems. Put your national debt in the war claims, but do the maths and there is alot of missing money. The war, homever, is a good excuse for this as no-one with any influence will check it.



*cough*BUSH!*cough* Who is persecuting Anyone not a white/straight/christian american? Huh?



*cough*Iraq's oil! Vietnam (for litteral rape)*cough*

Hitler's National Socialism abbandonned most of it's socialist policies and went Nationalistic to the full.

And Sleeper, please, you tell us to open our eyes. OPEN YOURS, see what is true. Stop denying it all because you've been brainwashed from American propaganda from an Early age. I was brought up to think America was great; I did for a while until I asked questions of it. I tohught that we should all be like America, then I asked a few questions, like "Why did they hate the USSR?" "Why do they let comanies exploit everyone?" "Why is there alot of hatred in America for foreign nations?"

Well, maybe it isn't so great. Why is Bush's "Axis of Eeevil" List containing half the world? Half of the countries on it pose about as much threat as a tea-strainer. I think America is runing out of natural resources and trying to steal some, but giving out lies because of it.

Just accept America is far from perfect. Never will an imperfect race create perfection; But we can try.

Please explain a little better what you are trying to say



errrr... aren't some of the people posting against you american?



LMAO!



i am sooo sorry to burst your bubble, but i am perfectly happy living in europe. at least i dont have to worry about a five year old pulling a machine pistol on me, or being publicly humiliated for my political beliefs, or worry about being forced to live in a trailer if my luck takes a turn for the worst. at least i can get a balanced view of the world through our media. CNN? dont make me laugh! they might as well be the public face of the pentagon!

The best thing about all those post from the left is that Americans reading them can see just how much you lefties are misguided---there is Zero truth about America in any of them.

For those who don't live in America (so sorry) they have been brainwashed by the Soviets and the Chinese for nearly a half century and there is no truth that will ever set them free----that is not new or news----Americans are well aware that much of the world will never like or understand Americans.

The vast majority of Americans live better than kings did in the past---they have better healthcare, heat in the winter, air-condition in the summer, cars, public transportation, food of every kind, clean water, super highways, fantastic cities, they can travel all over the world, freedom, money, prosperity, What king ever had all that?

There are some slums in some of our cities----only because many of those cities are controlled by lefties. Poor ignorant people are not smart enough to vote for people who will improve their situations.

America is not perfect; we are infested with lefties too.


[edit on 17-12-2004 by sleeper]

You claim we are brainwashed by the Chinese (They have HOW much influence in Europe? Eh? Please Explain... The USSR fell, it doesn't exist anymore! Although I wouldn't put it past Bush to claim it did, secretly.) Yet your post above is almost what a Chinese man would say about America. Itsl ike your brainwashed into thinking America is 100% great except for people who don't agree with your Republican views. God, Open mouth closed mind, eh?

Right-oh, less slagging more real maters.



You are comparing the fact we have invented stuff since the age of Kings. Lets say they were modern kings, then your post would be valid.
So, a King would be like Bushey. Not like an old king, you think a modern king would still use a Horse and Carriage? No. Of course not.

Why don't we understand you? Most of you still beleive what the government tells you is 100% the truth. Didn't you learn from the last timne Rumseld was in he has a vivid imagination, and assumes the whole world has WMD pointed at the whitehouse. Every country, even I-raq. He would probably have you beleive the Innuits have some too.

Lets see, 90% or so of your media is controlled by the Govt/Their Freinds. Not good, means your always made to beleive, as you do, America is great, no problems, we are the shining beacon of truth. America is steadily getting more and more like Brave New World by the year. You'll soon all be on Soma.

Your nation needs to open it's eyes. Your being manipulated into thinking as they want. Or have they already got you? Is it to late. Judging by above it is.

Oh, and pride in your nation is good. I am proud to be British, we have a rich and diverse history. I am not, though, proud of what we have become through Tory mis-management. Thatcher hammered the coffin shut on our industry. Yet this does not mean I am ashamed of my Nation. You should realise to be proud to be American does not mean you must beleive all the spiel the Bush regeim tells you, you may still pick fault with America.

I think the phrase "Deny Ignorance" could fit in here too. Have a good close look at your nation.

American press is controlled by the government----if you lived in a Third World country I could forgive such lack of knowledge.

I don't believe anybody, I live in American I see what is going on in America with my own eyes----we have this thing called freedom----there is no place except for area 51 that we can't go to----I have seen most of America----it is a very prosperous, beautiful country.

Sorry you live in some black hole----and apparently will never no what you are missing out on.

can you name me ONE american city where there isnt a slum?

didnt think so

the american dream is dead. just ask all the mexican immigrants who get into the US thinking they'll be set for life, work their nuts off for a pittance and die in a ghetto, with their kids destined to follow in their footsteps

meanwhile, their bosses get richer.

you probably think of Walmart as being a shining example of decency right? didnt they get into trouble for employing kids who dont know better, thus allowing them to pay the kids hardly enough?

oh, and can you tell us where it was you lived under Marxism?

Every city in the world has slums---a small area of the larger cities in America has slums----however, many of those slums are being converted into new housing. People that lived in the slums have made lots of money because the property values jumped.

Many slums are in prime areas----most of the people displaced by new development are being moved into new housing----the new housing is equal to if not better than what the American middle class lives in.

Many of the "so-called" poor live in better houses than the rich in Third world countries.

The America dream is dead? Do you live on Mars?----America is so prosperous that there are not enough people to take advantage of all the opportunities, and jobs, to keep up with all the new constrution that is going on all over America.

Anyone can start a business---any business and become successful.

Apparently America is the worlds best kept secret.

You go ahead and keep believing those nut lefties---it doesn't change the facts----America is the best place to be for the average worker, and will be for a long time.

I lived in leftist Europe.

this statement is quite different from the one below





rrrriiight. i am having trouble believing that the poor will just jump ahead of americas middle class as far as housing goes



i seriously doubt that. a dollar goes a lot further in the third world than you think



No. Do you?



thats pretty vague. europe is a big place

Ah Marxism and Karl Marx...hmmm never was one of my favourite subjects.
Well, Karl Marx was a Zionist and Zionist is an unlogical movenment that shouldnt exists.



Who said Hitler was a socialist?!?! he was national socialists. He basicly believed in extreme race nationalism i.e Aryan German blood.

Totally different from socialism.

Are you saying that today's Socialist can't be Nationalist? It seems to me that everyone who is attacking me on this post is pretty hooked on the Socialism in their countries----no less than Hitler�s goose steppers in Germany.

Like I pointed out in several of my posts---the basic tenet of Socialism is the control and ownership of the means of production----there are no privately own business or if there is they are few.

Hitler controlled all businesses and everything else in Germany; if that is not Socialism then what the heck is it?

Hitler was a dictator, so are you saying that socialism is based on a dictatorship using police state tatics??

Of course you can be a nationalists as well as a socialists, no one is saying you can't

Europes a big place their buddy, where abouts? Not ALL Europe is socialist beleive it or not...

Hitler Again? Hitler broke most of what we'd call socialist ideas here, such as equality, basic freedoms, doing things that were bad for the people, not to mention a war...

Can you *please* do one thing for me? Go and open your mind, and have a look in the news for bad stuff about america, use google if your unsure where to go. Then cross-reference these if you don't beleive them and research furthur as well. You'll find America isn't perfect at all. Despite attempts to brainwash you, you have to keep an open mind, but stop the propaganda getting in.

You tell us we fell victim to commie propaganda in europe; It seems that Republic propaganda has gotten you good and proper.

Oh, hang on, next he'll tell us the Internet is run by commies with an agenda. Come on, stop calling everyone a commie. I am saddened to think you may even class Bin Laden as one. The outside world out of America isn't completely leftist. Please, at least *try* to understand what you post about, and not go 100% on opinion.

For instance, I don't like Mercedes, but they undoubtably good cars. You don't like Europe, but accept is isn't a commie world domination plot. You've been watching cold war propaganda tapes again have'nt you?

If America should become Socialist----the first thing that would happen is that privately held companies would be confiscated----how would it be done---only one way----police state tactics. Is there really any difference between Socialism and dictatorship? None. Once the state has all the businesses, the next thing to go is private property, privacy, and freedom.

All the people under state rule would become state property----a penniless mass of people that the state has to take care of----the people would become like cattle----a burden to the state.

People who don't produce will have to be eliminated----what good is dead weight?

That same scenario has been played out for the last hundred years under Communism and is going on in may Third World countries as we type.

I live in America I don't need to ask anyone what it is about----I am free to travel everywhere---and like most Americans I do----America is a FINE PLACE to live----sooo sorry you all can't live like us!

Europe is nice, beautiful and I love visiting there (I'm European, born there)----but it don't come close to America.

So your claiming you don't get propaganda over there, or you just don't care if your brainwashed by them? Or that you refuse to even try to see if there is anything wrong with it as your whole argument would collapse?

WHY won't you look at the faults in your own country esactally? Ignore them and hope they go away?

Hang on... To utilise your approach:

I live in the UK. I know its better than America, because I live there! So your wrong!

See? It's a rubbish argument. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[edit on 17-12-2004 by Teh_Gerbil]

The whole idea of supply and demand is only producing what society is able to buy.. not what society needs.

The right-wing blame all poverty on laziness.. they seem to believe humans are naturally lazy. They don't like to see the real reasons behind poverty.

All they can do is shove the "go to college" idea.. and the idea that "all people" are capable of becoming rich billionares.

In capitalism, wealth is more important than anything.. even the environment and the lives of the people of the world. As you can see with this Iraq war.. soon as the war began all of a sudden big corporate business made a nice profit off of the bloodshed.

When big business becomes too big it begins to take over the government.. which it has. And if restrictions are placed on the size of business they yell and scream and threaten to move overseas.. which they do anyway as they take over government and use it for private political and profit agendas.

But corporate backed government tries to make everything look good... you can drive your SUV with Arab oil as people are being slaughtered for no reason in Iraq. But as long as you have what you need.. it don't matter how many must perish right?

No under socialism no businesses are taken away, mega-corporations are just more regulated to ensure they don't take control of the government.

Even under communism.. small businesses are not taken away.. private property remains private property.

You just have less corporate control of the majority of the wealth.. the wealth is spread around to ensure a high quality of life for pretty much everyone. The reason why we lack a system like this is because the majority of the wealth in this world is controlled by a few privilaged elitests.