Is God running America? ...and Bush merely a Proxy?

According to a new book by former German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder it could very well so be.
It rises embarrasing questions as to the foundations of the Bush policies.

In the prelude to the occupation of Iraq we all remember "if you're not with us, you're with the terrorists", designed as a threat in little disguise to drum together an alliance to fight "the evil".

Further evidence of this polarized justification of a policy that might impact the rest of this young century, is now being shed light on in the just published memoires of Chancellor Schroeder.

He tells about how George Bush again and again made refferences to God to justify his decission.

Guess he couldn't do it - as he did to the rest of the world - with any bogus intelligence. Die Bundesamt (the German Intelligence Agency) is known to be very well informed and at front concerning the Middle East.

So George has to resort to God.

In his book Schroeder says on Bush: "the impression arises that political decisions are the result of a dialogue with God". It's clear the kind of astonishment such a base for decissionmaking must have arisen in Mr Schroeder. In Europe since ages pre-Napoleonic the intermingling of beliefs and politics have been banned.

The "God-fearing" President didn't manage to convince Schroeder in his crusade, who happens to be a firm believer in the separation of church and state. He also accuses elements in the U.S. as being hypocritical when it comes to secularism in government.

Thought it was seperated there too.

"We rightly criticize that in most Islamic states, the role of religion for society and the character of the rule of law are not clearly separated, but we fail to recognize that in the USA, the Christian fundamentalists and their interpretation of the Bible have similar tendencies", Schroeder writes.

Is this "in the name of God" rubbish a justification of the tools used in Iraq? - how awfully unchristian they might seem.

Or are the leathal tools justified by an hidden agenda? NWO, emperial ambitions, oil etc.

Could it really be "kingdom come" brought to us ordinary mortals? BTW ...who believes that - except for George?

And that's what really makes it so dangerous.

Link for the quotes.
[edited TWO times for spelling. A terrible thunderstorm went pass as I did it - made my computer go down. GOD's REVENGE!? Uuh!]
[edit on 27-10-2006 by khunmoon]

[edit on 27-10-2006 by khunmoon]

HAHAHAHA, extremist view.


Because he want the people to not think and that they only see two sides and everyone that doesn't support the illegal wars of our dear leader Bush to be a traitor or a terrorist or evil, you know, the enemy. It's a child view, but a lot of people seems to buy that...


Of course his actions are impacting the rest of this young century. More anger towards the USA and Israël.

Of course, he then have the nutjob support.


No George resorted to his corporate and Bilderberg friends.


Bush refer to god because it gives him votes, he's using the christians, it was in the news not 2 weeks ago. He's in Bohemian Grove, so i doubt he's a real christian, even if he would be, his actions are against the basics principes of christianity, you know, love you're fellow human, stand against evil, when the enemy hurt you, show him the other cheek.


Yeah the US is hypocritical in a lot of things, and secularism is one of them for sure.

Agree.

Yes.

Also.

A lot of nutjobs in the US and around the world.

Of course.

[edit on 27-10-2006 by Vitchilo]

God isn't running the US....the "nutjobs" are.

as someone who actually believes in God, I find the title to this thread a little offensive. don't mean to nitpick or anything...but God could do a heck of much better job of running this country then the loons that are running it. we'd have more freinds overseas also....less proverty, and ummm.....you wouldn't hear about little kids being pulled from life support and being alowed to die simply because the parents didn't have the money to foot the bill.
nope, God isn't running the country....but I have to say, the spirit that seems to be behind the powers that be in this country seems to be a bit, anti-chirst like.

Sorry dawnstar, I'm not trying to hurt anyone, but a bit of sarcsme seems to be accepted to get a point through. I'm not out to offend or to desecrate anything, but as I said, only trying to get a point through - though that point might seems pointless to many Americans (and some members).

As a Euro I just can't get into my head, that you allow religion to get mixed up with politics in such a pathetic and obivious way. Any European politican attemping to call God in any agenda political, would be thrown out of office - or taken to the looney bin - at least forced to resign within 24 hours.

And I cannot understand at all, when you all know it's lies - and U.S. being so fundamentally Christian as it is - that you accept your leader to misuse the name of the Lord the way he does. Isn't that to take that name vain? A wrongfull use of His name? A serious violation of a commandment?

Then I ask myself, is it because hypocrisism in America does not mean the same as in Europe? Or is it because it's the way the system works and lieing games, arrogance and ignorance, is part of that system. I refuse to believe it is because you don't see it.

Which leads me to the heart of the dilemma Americana is to me: your perceptions of morals. That money overrules morals and politics is a very American fact. I'm not a Christian in the sense of practising worship, but I am a believer and I was brought up on Christian values, so what the "moral majority" of America let pass in politics just seems - well excuse my vocabulary - devilish to me. I couldn't find any better wording.

Let me give a example of the moral disproportions.

In my opinion and many others, Americans included, George Bush should have been impeached long ago - yes, I've followed the discussion on different threads and the stances connected (then you get Cheany), so the whole FabFour bunch from Junior over creepy Conda, dirty Dick to Rummy the dummy should face impeachment. It's so obvious to a greater and greater part of the world opnion - as powerlessness, sad to say, also is.

I'm not getting biased here, so for the sake of the fair share, Tony-boy in UK, Johnny in Oz, as my own PM, the caveman, the monster of Denmark, should walk the plank as well.

As for the disproportions, a recent U.S. president was tried impeach for something which had non-what-so-ever to do with the way he ran the country, but with his personal moral standards only. Let me just make a remark about similar events in Europe. It happens all the time - and nobody really gives a damn about it. A gentleman agreement exists between the press and the politicans. You do your job, we do ours, and as long your sidestepping is within the boandaries of "normal" acceptable human behavior, we won't report - just a little inside info now and then, to appriciate our discretion.

It's like that in France, in Germany and partly in the UK still - and in Denmark for sure. Of course some people will always gossip about the sexual preferences of various public figures, but as long it doesn't interact with their professional performancies nobody gives a heck about it.

Back to Clinton, what did he do wrong? Nothing that had to do with the way he discharged his office. Yes, he broke the Decalogue, but not in anyway different or worse than millions of American men do everyday. What he did, didn't affect the execusion of American politics, but when George Bush takes the name of the Lord thy God in vain, he not only breaks a commandment, he betrays millions of Americans. And betrayal is impeachable.

Why hasn't he been tried yet? I don't know. Except that HYPOCRISY and good lawyers are part of the answer.

By the way, you know the old David Lindley song: "Lawyer Man, professional Liar Man"?

Kuhnmoon,

Let me offer you this. American Politics is responsible for getting Religion involved in American Politics. The keyword here is "Bloc Vote". Convince the Spiritually Ignorant that you work for God, and they follow you like puppy-dogs and justify your every Sin. The one's you hear about are of that ilk, they are a minority in this country, and, therefore do NOT represent the true American viewpoint. Guilty Dogs always bark the loudest. The fact of our illustrious President currently, is that his performance ratings are now so low that after all these years, he is going to be forced to learn FRACTIONS!!

Most of us quite well understand that George Bush is NOT God, "God" is NOT in the White House, and God is definately NOT in control of the US Government, and decidedly not it's actions. For what it's worth, neither is the American Majority in control of the actions of the Federal Government. If, indeed, we were, then we would not be at War on Terror save in our own Country and on our own soil. The later, after all, is the only sensible way to fight Terror. We know that even if he doesn't.

After a bit, I decided to add a few more things to this post. Part of the problem is those who bark so loudly cannot seem to get their heads around a very basic precept of Christian Belief--taking responsibility for one's own actions--re: "Take up thy Cross, and follow me." God is NOT going to drop down out of the sky and solve Human-caused problems, and Jesus Christ is nobody's perpetual Judas Goat. If a man be Born Again, then he needs to mind keeping his Slate clean, and that by recognizing Sin as Sin and not committing it again. These People need to get a clue about Spiritual Responsibility, and the facvt that God works through and with Human Beings. This is the Power of God as manifested in this Reality on this Earth. If a man claiming Christianity does not manifest this quality in his own Life and toward the lives of those he touches, then he needs to examine himself and the genuineness of his Life as a Christian. Jesus never intended to continually bear your Sin after the fact of Him, His Teaching, and His Works. He bade you all to Be like Him and not to live like the (unsaved) World. IOW-- Christian Experience is not, as so many so widely demonstrate, being forgiven forever so that you bear no Guilt or Responsibility for your actions in Life--making it ok to continue in Greed, Insolence, and other sinful practices. Such may be the The Way of the World, but it can no longer be that of a Christian who is no longer of the World.

The next time you wonder why the Hands of God have failed to move, look at your own Hands and ask again.

(not aimed at you Khunmoon--just a general rant for those with an ear, regarding the Topic of this Thread.

[edit on 27-10-2006 by Ed Littlefox]

[edit on 27-10-2006 by Ed Littlefox]

Thank you for your instructual lecture, Ed. I'm with you most of the way.
I might not be a very good example, but I try to live my life accordingly.



Exactly this part of your "sermon" is what bothers me about a man like George Bush. I have seen quotes descriping him as a "Born Again Christian" by his own word. That statement is supported by Chansellor Schroeder's memoires.

The title of the thread is meant ironically, to expose the hipocrisy in the words of George Bush.

It has occured to my mind he actually might believe them himself.

But it bugs me and goes beyond my psychological understanding that the American people ever believed any of them.

But I have noticed, good presidents as seen by Americans, coincide with those seen as the worst by Europeans. And vice versa.

If americans thought bush was a good president, the opinion polls would be giving a much better result, don't you think....
devilish?? not nit-picking here, but I think that I pick the right word....anti-christ like.
and I'm not picking it without some kind of basis. I think that that biblical anti-christ works as a spiritual force long before it becomes flesh and blood....and that spirit has been working hard in the world the past few decades. I've seen a good church be reduced to bickering and backstabbing with power and wealth being the carrot that led them there....and well, what is being used now to gain the political support, wealth and power.....and fear of course...dark spirits feed on emotions such as fear, keep people fearing the boogey men and those dark spirits will be strenthened enought, the anti-christ spirit will be strenthened enough, they will be able to manifest their will on the physical plane as they haven't done in a very long time. Please note, I am not saying that bush, or anyone else in the administration is the antichrist....but that the spirit has been at work setting the stage for his arrival.
some in the christian community have taken the bait that was laid out for them in the 80's, hook, line and sinker. they believe they are right, they turned the back on God to grab for the riches, or to rule over the wife or whoever, and while their back was turned an imposter took God's place in their hearts. they never even noticed.
God does not rule any nation, since God never established any governmental power, read your bible, the power he chose to rule Isreal were the judges.....it was the people who chose to be ruled over the kings. so, God gave them the kings, and a nice warning of what their choice will bring upon them....
God rules through the hearts of the people who come to him.....and expects his people to reach out into the world in a true christian way. if they did that, more would be added to the flock.

[edit on 28-10-2006 by dawnstar]

First, let me say I respect any religion monotheistic. That said, I consider religion a "necessary evil" for the ordinary Man to control his "natural savage" Ego and all its desires. IMO a consciousness and attention on things as they happen without prejudical biasing, in other words, in sound judgement and with common sense, could do it. Deny ignorance is a very good start.

For myself I can do by observing the Seven Deadly Sins.
I consider myself more a concerned than a religious person, though I do describe myself as a believer.

Any great prophet, might be Jesus, Muhammed or Buddha, are to me equals. Personally I prefer Buddha, cause to me he represents the highest judgement. I try to stir free of any direction of believe, i.e, any sect or church, because as you yourself put it, Dawnstar:

Yes, any religion tends to get corrupt when it gets organized in the schemes of Man. I see it clearly here in this SE Asian country I stay. It's a Buddhist country by constitution, and the number one factor controlling the society definitely is religion. That the country is ill reputed for its corruption and greed makes up the paradox.

Though being a fairly developed and educated country, it is so drench in superstion and believes in super natural powers, that rational logic is more or less disabled. Anything is explained by ghosts or demons, seldom by cause and effect, which are the genuine foundation of the teachings of the Buddha. It's a corruption of believes to a degree not even seen in the most bizarre of Christian cults.

Many scholars see Buddhisme as a psychological science more than a religion, which in many ways are true as Buddhisme is without a definite god. Non the less - or exactly because of that - Theravada, as they call this branch, has imported every possible deity into their believes. All the Brahmanian Hindu gods, the spirits of their original animistic believes mixed it up with Taoism's reverence for the anchestors. What comes out of it is - to me - paganism.

But it shall not corrupt my believes.

The problem seems to be, when any believe is turned into a religion, it becomes corrupted.

That is why religion and politics NEVER should be allowed to mix. By law, if you ask me.

As I did state The Seven Deadly Sins above as a part of my own fundament of believe, I find it appropiate to bring them here.

The version here is from Jason Miller's Hell Awaits, America:
Mass Manipulation, Blissful Psychosis, and 7 Easy Ways to Achieve Damnation

I never understood how the most puritanical nation on earth could became the worlds biggest producer of porn. Is it because business opportunities anytime overrules any moral codex? Sex does indeed sell.


The fact stated in the last line - especially the last part of it - gives a clue to the relative willingness of the American people contributing to private charity. A bad conscience most likely plays a part. And it should, US government only fulfilling a UN recommanded goal of giving 1% of the GNP with 1/5. Only a handful of developed countries are close to fulfilling it.


This is what in plain English is called greed, definitely the number one factor in any atrocity and human misbehavior taking place on this ravaged and raped globe.


Yes, the indifference by the media and its public (this board included) is astonishing, concerning whether it's 100's of Iraqis killed by bombs, torture, in the fury of battle incidents, or it is a handful of troops killed by a roadside bomb.


Anger is blind and it disables thinking, engourages ignorance and is easily manipulated. Some times you need to stop and think.


Superiority, fancied to a degree of pshycosis, is reason for the paranoia. Arrogance, as ignorance, is at the root of envy.


So shall pride be the incentive in the fall of the American Empire.

I highly recommend you to read it all, the quotes are only snippets.

-khunmoon-

You have voted khunmoon for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

This bit about the seven sins really hits the nail on the head

Thank you for voting me, Pinkus, I appreciate you like the post.

You know, the best stories, be news or just polemical, are seldom those in the mainstream. Yahoo, CCN or BBC merely reports the news, but to get a point to them and alternative views, you must go to smaller, less known sites.

A highly respectable and very good one I can recommend is www.truthout.org...

By the way, I like your avatar, real cool and flashy.

-khunmoon-