Anyone Have Ideas How We Can Get Socialism To Work?

Since there has never been a working socialistic goverment, how can there be a working socialistic goverment in any given country?

I am looking for real suggestions, and not "It won't ever work." Comments like that are not welcome on this thread.

Thank You.

[edit on 9-2-2007 by JessicaS]

In think the answer, and I discuss this with people on occasion, I think the solution is a socialist democratic type of government.
Unfortunately, for some reason many Americans (and to a lesser extent other countries) seems (to me) that to them a socialist society is a bad thing, in my opinion, this is a hangover from the cold war era where the propaganda made communism more evil than satan himself.
People think that they want NONE of that,
well maybe some of them do? Like a shoe, you must try it on.

The problems with a socialist, or communist society is the same that plagues any system (yes capitalism too), and that is people, especially hyper motivated types that are our politicians.
It's not the systems that are bad, it's people that make them bad, just like guns don't kill people.

You want to know about a bad EVIL system?
Research capitalism, the only system I know of right now that is destroying our planet.

Well the main reason why socialism doesn't work is because people have no motivation to do anything. In the west people are generally motivated by money and material things, and therefore work hard to attain these.

In order to get socialism to work you would need other motivating factors. One example is to have a fascist police state to enforce such a culture, so people are infact working out of fear. Another way would be to have a nationalist culture where people are "brainwashed" into helping to attain a national goal, a good example of this is victory over a rival country.

In my opinion it would be hard to get socialism to work in the west seeing as we are used to competing for material benefits. Our whole economy is based on competition and improving our position in life.

If you give people a reason to exist it would work.
Right now Im working for financial gain. Ill pass this gain on to my children and theyll start off a step higher than I did.

Socialize me and what will I have? I guess you could train me through government schools and media to work for the good of the state. But theres no freedom there. Id just be sharecropping off of the states land. I suppose I could participate in the politics of the state but thats only an option as long corruption takes no part in the states affairs. Like that would ever happen. No system will get rid of corruption.

I could get involved with crime for personal gain. Theres always a black market.

Maybe if I just wasnt me I could live to dance or some other hobby. But thats not me.

So, in comclusion, if you were to kill all of the "me's" out there socialism would work great.

Ever read Harrison Bergeron? Thats probably the most successful socialist society Ive ever heard of be it fiction or non. The key was to dumb everyone down so far they didnt have opinions or thoughts. Works everytime.

Those that rail against socialism fail to understand that the very concept of government is socialist by nature. Governments are only created to provide for the needs of the collective that are not well satisfied by individual members of the collective acting alone. These needs include printing money, managing the money supply, providing for the common defense, building dams, roads & bridges, controlling easements & rightofways, providing safe drinking water & sewage handling, providing education, providing health care, giving unemployment compensation, providing police powers for crime control and aide to the poor just to name a few of the things brought about by American socialism. The US constitution is nothing more than the social contract between the collective & its members defining the core terms, limitations and obligations placed on both.

The US government is already socialist, just based on the laundry list of US socialist programs I've listed in the above paragraph. Any one claiming that they do not use & benefit from at least some of the US socialist agenda mentioned is either a hermit or they are just not telling the truth.

I will grant that their is some disagreement between individual members of the collective as to which programs the collective will fund and which it will it will not fund. And I will further grant that many of these of programs are in a state of disrepair & need fixed in major ways while others are entirely corrupt & need to be policed better.

Comrade "thisguyrightthere" wants the collective to pay for the benefits he desires while refusing to pay for the benefits socialist benefits desperately needed by other members of the collective. He beats his chest, makes veiled threats with weapons and opines the evils of socialism, but in the end he sucks on the government nipple as much as the next person despite his protests to contrary.



[edit on 12-2-2007 by df1]

Sorry if I havent made it clear enough in other posts I know youve read, or at least claim to have read, that this "comrade" wants no federal government. This comrade wants nothing greater than individual states governments. Even that level of government would terrify me and I would still be stockpiling food and ammunition. I dont want anyone to pay for anything anyone else claims they need.

Is that clear enough? No federal government. None. Zero. Zilch. Zipp.

Maybe you missed my post descibing the family member who took her handouts? Maybe you missed my post describing my grandmothers views, who you so proudly drug into the discussion? Maybe you missed or just didnt want to hear anything Ive said?

Sorry, our founding fathers tossed out the Articles of Confederation in favor the US Constitution. They were bred from much tougher stock than you and in their farsighted wisdom they put a strong central government in place because they knew it would be needed.


We have the government we have and it is socialist. You are free to wish that it were otherwise.


You drive on the collective's roads, you benefit from the collective's protected easements that bring electricity, gas, water & telecommunications to your home, the collective tests your food to make sure it is safe and even the Internet you are using now was built by the collective efforts of the US government.

I didn't miss anything, you did.

[edit on 12-2-2007 by df1]

Socialism i.e Communism is a great idea that, even though you don't want to hear it, will never work. The reason why is both simple and complex. It is against human nature.

Statement by a Socialist: "This is my land but it is your land too."

Reply of average human: "What? No,what's mine is mine and what is yours is yours."

You see the human brain is wired to be very individualistic in it "rational." In order for socialism to work, the human mind would have to be more wired to a Communal type of mindset, much like ants or bees are.

Bull manure, we are already socialist. I've provide a very short list of socialist programs provided the collective known as the US government.

Surely you are not denying that these are fundamentally socialist programs.

No, those are just commensensical things for any civilization to do.

Comrade Groucho always said laugh and the whole proletariat laughs with you.

But what happened to speaking the truth?

Yes I ride a bike on the roads my state taxes have paid for. Ive never been on an interstate or any other monstrosity born out of the "New Deal."

Im pretty sure I pay for my utilities directly to the supplier. If you check your bills youll see maintenance costs of the lines and polls and pipes are all included. Also, the state taxes me for these things.

Food? Guilty. I have shoped at the supermarket a time or two. But over 80% of my food comes from local farmers and what I hunt in the appropriate seasons. The state DEP is paid for by my licensing and a percentage of the equipment I purchase, guns, ammo, knives, clothing.

The internet was developed with assistance from the government. there were also 3 major universities involved before the government got on its high horse and figured the internet had military uses. So what? It would have come without the governments involvement and even if it had never come Id have been spared an erratic and bitter tag-along such as yourself personally calling me out in posts and trying to breed hostility with ignorant, personal and direct attacks against your fellow posters.

The only reason I have access to the next generation of the idiot box is because I sit in front of it at work.

There are no phone lines at home. No screens of any kind. Thats how they get in. Thats how they hear your thoughts. Thats how they find your guns.

Thisguyrighthere, are you serious? I wasn't aware that anyone in the US was confinscating guns. There is healthy paranoia, and then there is unhealthy paranoia...

This thread was created by me, so we could discuss how we can take true socialism, current programs in our "democracy" of current day goverment, and human nature.. and get them all to work together. That is why i do not wish to hear "it won't work, sorry". I want to work this into something that can. Any idea's?

The following 4 items seem doable to me in the short term with some public support.

1) Bring home the troops from Iraq. Damn the consequences to Iraq, this congress has a mandate to act in the best interest of our troops and American people now. The US will not be able to move forward on any other issues until this is finished. Cut the funding, start impeachment proceeding on the lot of them and/or shut down the country. Do what ever it takes. Enough of this presidential electioneering and partisan posturing. Job one is congress doing its duty on Iraq. Americans continue dying while congress performs non-binding political gymnastics.

2) The major obstacle to obtaining a good government that represents the people is the corporate corruption that infests the government from the local to the federal level. This corruption must be addressed with extreme prejudice. Government can not serve the people when it is beholden to corporate money. Surely everyone not on the take would want this regardless of ideology.

3) Universal health coverage would be a piece of cake to implement. Getting it through congress would present a higher level of difficulty. We just use the existing Medicare system to process all the new medical claims without regard to age. It really would be that simple. The industry & ingenuity of the American people are an the most important part of this country's infrastructure. Surely if we can come up with the money to maintain our transportation infrastructure, we can come up with the money to maintain the health care of our people. What is the point of well maintained roads & bridges if the people using them are sick and afflicted?

4) A great deal of unAmerican legislation passed because of the fear mongering since 911 must be repealed. A lot of this crap is unconstitutional in first place. Insuring the freedom and rights of the people is equally as important as maintaining their health. Again we need congress for this to happen. And again they will difficult to persuade, politicians just hate giving back rights once they've taken away.



[edit on 14-2-2007 by df1]

You bet Im serious. Did you forget what they did in New Orleans? It was just practice. They removed firearms from legal owners under penalty of death/arrest. Thats not something I can just shrug off. Thats a huge infringement of our fundamental rights perpetrated by the government in a systematic and organized fashion. Essentially its an act of war perpetrated against the American people. Bush hasnt done anything to protect that right. None of the current candidates have said they will protect it either. Except for Paul. Guilianni came out and said "gun control works."

Theyve force fed our kids "vaccines" thrown them into government training camps, redistributed our wages, passed laws banning free speech and our right to bear arms has been under attack for at least as long as Ive been alive.

During all this time the R's and D's have traded positions, flipped and flopped all over to get one goal through. Totalitarian government with a subservient population.

Its a little hard to ignore these things.

What happened in New Orleans was a big mess, and to the removal of firearms, was done under Marshal Law. I don't think it was practice. I think it was for those in that cities own protection.

Personally, I don't think stockpiling weapons will do anyone good. This isn't 1776, and there can't be an uprising like there was in years past. Technology is so advanced, and the goverment has such an advantage... even IF they go and try to confisate everyones weapons, there would be no sufficant way for anyone who is trying to fight it, to win.

I'm glad to see that you agree that the US Goverment has failed. Democracy has lost it's power due to greed influenced individuals. This thread is meant to hypothise how to fix this mess we are in.

DF1, I'm in total agreement, how would this good goverment act in your vision of this? How would we set up officals, and keep coruption down?



[edit on 15-2-2007 by JessicaS]

Would you mind telling that to all the militias in Afganistan, Iraq and Pakistan?
They seem to think theyve been doing pretty well fighting the U.S. from their caves with surplus AK's. Perhaps if you shoot them an email telling them what you told me we could be done with this mess.

Just a thought.

Silly. The topic was internal uprising. Not a land 6000 nautical miles away.


[edit on 15/2/07 by SteveR]

Aw thats weak. If you want you can say our existing infrastructure makes it more difficult or our forced compliance to SS cards and the constant monitoring makes it more difficult. Not just the fact that we are here and they are there.

If anything, I think because the government exists here wed have a pretty good chance. Their buildings are here. Their homes are here. They most likely wouldnt nuke us here. Their families are here.

That is, unless they go underground with the elites.

A totalitarian government will kill alot of us. Most, maybe all of us. But they cant kill the desire to be free. Somewhere, even within their own ranks, that idea will go on. Itll continue like that until we're all dead or until we're all free. A guilded cage is still a cage.

Broadly defined, a "good government" is one that is connected & held accountable to those it was elected to serve. Reestablishing the broken connection between our elected fofficials and the electorate would be a good place to start. This could be accomplished by continuing the concept of the "town meeting" dialog between the candidates & voters after the election is over. As things stand now the dialog ends with the election, after which most of our newly elected officials quickly run off to Washington or their state capital never giving the voters a second thought until the next election cycle starts. In these hallowed halls of government our representatives must interact on a daily basis with other representatives, attorneys, lobbyists, interest groups, union leaders and other similar types of people that are vying for influence and favor of every sort. In this institutionalized 24/7 frenzied vacuum it is difficult for even the most idealistic and noble person not to be blinded, confused, manipulated, pressured & corrupted by the unimaginable power & money. It doesn't take very long for the folks at home to be forgotten.

BRING THEM ALL HOME! No reason exists to for our representatives to be relocated & forced to take up residence in a place that is geographically distant from the people that elected them to office. We have the technology to allow our representatives to conduct the business of government such as hearings, investigations and votes from business offices in their home states and districts via computers and video conferencing. This would buffer our elected leaders from the cult of influence & power while at the same time making them closer & more accessible to the electorate on a daily basis. Being home would ground our office holders by providing a continuous reminder of who they were elected to serve. The simple acts of everyday life like waving to a neighbor, mowing the lawn, stopping at mom & dads for breakfast and hearing Joe the barber's flaky take on current events would provide emotional & psychological grounding of home for the representative to lean on.

Making the correct and noble votes on legislation will become easier because our leaders will be forced to look into the eyes of their constituents when they step out of their office for lunch or to drive home from work rather than the lying eyes of the power brokers and influence peddlers. Foreign ambassadors, CEOs and union leaders should have not greater access to our representatives than the soccer moms, teachers, IT techs, doctors, or Wal-Mart employees. The majority of people elected to office did not enter politics with the intent of screwing the American people, most had idealistic dreams and visions of helping America and it's people. Being home will better allow them to retain and realize the ideals that caused them to seek office.

Being home will make it more convenient to have regular & frequent town meetings plus allow those that missed a meeting to speak their mind to the official in the grocery store, at the local mall or just passing on the street. Leaders that are vested and connected to us will be tough to mislead with bogus studies and manipulated poll data.

We can turn all of those lovely old buildings in the various capitals into historical museums and use them on special occasions such as swearing in ceremonies or state of the union type speeches just to let our leaders feel the power, strength and majesty of our unique American heritage. But when it comes time to govern they need to go home.

[edit on 15-2-2007 by df1]