"Utah Man Wants 'In God We Trust' In All Classrooms"

kutv.com...
headline says it all...

now, this is a clearly biased article from the get-go


added.

basically, this man (and many others including a "family values" group) would like for a direct violation of the establishment clause in the form of posters bearing the motto "In God We Trust"

here's the voice of reason on the issue, Rep. Jackie Biskupski:

I personally believe in God, but lots of people don't. This makes about as much sense as putting up posters saying "In Allah we trust" or "In gray aliens we trust" or "In Buddha we trust". People are welcome to believe or disbelieve anything they want. The students should be able to choose whatever religion to believe in, or none at all, and not be encouraged one way or another.

It might be a different story in a non-public school system. I don't know how the American school system works, but in my hometown we have a public school board and a Catholic school board. If the Catholic board were to put posters like this up, that would be reasonable, I think, but if the public board were to do so, I could see people complaining.

Besides, I'm pretty sure this would be against the American Constitution, although since the same motto is on your currency, they could probably get away with it if they wanted to, because of that precedent.

If Oak Norton gets his way every Utah classroom will soon display a poster bearing a simple, patriotic message: ``In God We Trust.''

This is nothing about patriotism, this about religion. I careless what is put in classrooms of not, after all the lesson learned about religion or patriotism come from home and that is where it should be enforced.

Which 'god'?? There are many. Which one does he want?
(like I have to ask? )


I fully agree. It's a slippery slope ... next we will have bibles in the class room with teachers giving their version of 'truth' and their interpretations. No thanks.

If kids want to pray .. let 'em pray. But absolutely no one should be pushing their religion on anyone else. (unless you voluntarily sign up for Catholic school or something like that .. then you get what you asked for)

and that's the status quo... let's keep it that way.
though i have absolutely no problem with the bible and other religious texts being taught as literature or occupying space in a school library

so... we're... um, pretty much agreed on this. i guess. that's kind of weird. i was sure there would be at least some sort of discussion on the issue...

But when it come to Islam it would seem ok.Here is a step by step plan to "invite" Islam in schools.The 9th circuit court of appeals has ruled on it.Of course you can guess the outcome.Only for "instructional" purpose.
But why is this ok. Crazy.

Those are a loony bunch. They always muck it up and, from what I remember, they have the highest overturned record of any court of appeals.

I agree with ya rdang. While it's important for children in social studies to understand the basics of the major religions a lot of people go WAY TOO FAR when it comes to Islam. They PUSH it rather than teach a social studies version of just the basics.



It DOES happen from time to time.

[edit on 6/19/2007 by FlyersFan]

Okay. But which bible? there are many. For instance - In the deep south you'd get stuck with just the King James version (which is missing many books and that Martin Luther mucked around with). If there is going to be a bible in the library or classroom, then not only the KJV ... but the Catholic bible and others need to be in the library/classroom as well. Not all bibles are the same.

If it's taught as literature then in some parts of the country you would get preaching. Students would get the teachers version of 'bible truth' and his interpretation. Students would get tested on that teachers version of truth.

It is my opinion that many fundies can't help themselves when it comes to this. That has been my experience while living in Alabama.

I undestand using the bible as a source of 'literature' ... but it still makes me nervous.

Given the consumer nation this country has become it would be more accurate to put in mannon we trust in the classrooms.... In the name of the dollar, the cent and the almighty profit we pray give us wealth unending, materialism until the end of time.

[edit on 19-6-2007 by grover]

FlyersFan, you're right. we'd need equal representation of religious texts. hindu texts, muslim, buddhist, shinto, etc.
the biggest problem i had is that at my highschool we had at least 10 bibles... and we did have a koran... and a book of mormon. but the koran was in the mythology section, the bible was in the religious texts section... until i complained about that.

Yes the debate goes on and people are making decisions whether they want God in their lives. WE make decisions sometimes as a nation.
I will tell you where the sraw that breaks the camel's back is.
Katrina and Sharon's stroke was a hint.
If this country has anything to do with the division of Israel in any capacity
the people of this country is going to get another real dose of what is is like to piss God off. So far you ain't got the message and this "road map to peace" is still in the offing with GWB at the helm.
Mark these words and write them down in your memory for future use.
When you see them give away more land for peace and a besom of destruction hits this country then you will know. No one iwll have to tell you anymore. If you're alive. cantyousee

well, as a nation it's absolutely obvious that god has no place, but private life is a different story. on a governmental level: no god of any sort
on a private level: it's your choice, do what you want unless you're going to break a law... then file suit to make it legal for you to break that law.



not this again...



get your religion out of my politics, it's never done anything positive for the world in that capacity.



you know, we shouldn't have given that land to israel in the first place, it was theft from a group of people that had nothing to do with the situation the world was trying to apologize for ...

I understand your position. Understand mine. I'm telling you what God wants. I understand that there is no fear of the Lord in you concernig this. I understand that you think man's politics rules supreme.
I'm telling you that you are wrong and your error is a matter of curse or blessing of this country. This is one reason why Christians do not want a one world government with road map to peace. This is why we oppose the current process. I'm talking about the real Christians. The ones who are awake about these things and praying about them. The ones who know what I know. The rest are unfortunately asleep and I will let God be the judge of what happens to them. But i can tell you in the short run it will be bad for them.
Real awake Christians know God's feelings toward this land of Israel and we know his plans for it.
If you are ignorant of these plans then you have a real opportunity to study them yourself and see. It is the ignorance of these things that destroys those who fail to consider. I personally hope you a prosperous and fruitful future but I am not the one deciding it. I'm doing you a favor just by explaining this to you and hoping that you will consider God's purposes concerning this land. It is your decision on a personal level. You cannot stop this present peace plan but you can align yourself with God.
I hate it say it this way but it is none the less true. The only way God can fulfill his plans for Isreal is to nearly depopulate the region and destroy those who are now in control. Then he will fill it with the remnant from all the countries where they have been scattered during the last half of the tribulation period.
You will find that this is more than a belief;more than an ideology;
This is going to be the real God of Abraham in the worlds face.
peace, cantyousee

[edit on 25-12-2007 by cantyousee]

[edit on 25-12-2007 by cantyousee]

and exactly how do you know what god wants?



and on what basis am i wrong?



ok, and exactly what does this have to do with the man in Utah?



and exactly what is it that you know?



so first you say you will let god judge them and then you pass your own judgment? judge not lest ye be judged...



this is ridiculously off topic... in fact, the rest of it is as well. what does any of this have to do with that guy in Utah?

and exactly how do you know what god wants?

Believe it or not there are some chosen people in this world who's very existance is to know what God wants about certain things pertaining to
the current world situation. They call us Christians.

and on what basis am i wrong?

You are mistaken on your political opinion of the Land of Isreal. And the basis by which you are mistaken is God's word and what he has to say about it. Without knowing exactly what it is that God says about it how could you possibly judge his position or mine? YOu first would have to study what the prophecies say to know. Then after you know what is said
in the Bible, you could make an informed statement about it even if you disagreed with what it says. Everyone has the right to disagree with God. he gave us all free will.


"ok, and exactly what does this have to do with the man in Utah?"

actually it has a lot to do with it. Because the man in Utah has a regard for God's word and what I am saying is just an extension of that. Actually what I am saying should be in the second thread.




and exactly what is it that you know?

What I know is how God feels about the subject. I know what he plans on doing about it. Of course it isn't anything supernatural about my knowing. It's just that I've read what God has said and that is how I know. YOu could know to if you wanted to.


so first you say you will let god judge them and then you pass your own judgment? judge not lest ye be judged...

I haven't judged anyone I just happen to know that the sleeping Christians are in for a bad ride. I know this because I have studied God's word and I know what he said. WE are all falling into judgement with God. The good the bad and the ugly. I am humbled by the knowledge that God can treat us anyway he wants. Infact there is evidense to suggest that he will take out good flesh with bad in some instances and sort it out over yonder. So none of us should get the feeling that we are supreme in our relationship with God. bBcause he looks at attitude a lot.


this is ridiculously off topic... in fact, the rest of it is as well. what does any of this have to do with that guy in Utah?

really? because muslims, jews, hindus, etc would all say the exact same thing...



i know what the bible says, i also know that religion doesn't have a place in politics.




i've read your book cover to cover... thrice. i know what it says, i just don't take much stock in genocidal texts.




...not really, you probably wouldn't consider that man a christian, as he is a mormon...




but there's one thing you don't know... if you're right.
you THINK you're right
you BELIEVE you're right
you HAVE FAITH that you're right



know god, no peace
no god, know peace