USA must go!

Ignores reality?? No my thought process doesn't ignore reality. Reality is that if it weren't for those shady dealings, Hitler wouldn't have had near the power that he had in the late 30's/early 40's to wage war in Europe. He was financed by corporate interests and money that came partly from Europe and from the U.S. U.S. citizens helped Hitler rise to power, or do you want to ignore that?

Those soldiers didn't know that they were fighting a war that people from their own country helped finance. That's sad. What's even sadder is that this history is ignored up to the point that it is denied.

Naive? I don't think so.

Well, will you look at that?
Seems that we are quite the bed buddies and we are not operating in a vacuum.

www.npr.org...

reply to post by nixie_nox

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Of course you're not. Corporate profits at any cost.

reply to post by TheBandit795

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Great "duck and weave". You might even make a good boxer with moves like that. Truth is that I pinned you to the wall on your comments and all you could do was repeat yourself. Couldn't answer a single question of mine (because doing so truthfully would have destroyed your argument).

And this "corporate profits are bad" argument is totally naive. It's all about incentive. Everything you own was produced by a business who's incentive for making what you own was profit. Why profit? Very simple Because profit pays the business overhead - raw materials, rent, utilities, wages for workers, insurance, money to replace worn out equipment, retirement and medical plans for workers, plus the funds to expand the business if it succeeds because people like you bought their products.

Maybe they don't teach Economics 101 in little countries like Aruba, so there you are. Reminds me of the people in the U.S that gripe about the "national debt" while owning a bunch of U.S. Savings Bonds (part of the national debt!). Naive again.

Bottom line for me on this forum is that it's easy and I guess kind of fun for some to sit back in your little countries that have either never accomplished a thing on the world's stage, or haven't done so for centuries and blast the U.S. A country that hardly makes all the right moves, but at least is in the game still trying. So continue to sit (you hope) anonymously behind your keyboards and type away like you really matter while other people (mainly from the "hated" U.S.) are out in the world actually trying to do something.

[edit on 9/25/2007 by centurion1211]

Nonsense... I clarified myself. Apparently you can't understand what I was talking about. So get off your high horse and try to understand what other people instead of showing that you are clearly not interested in discussion but in preaching.

And you really want answers to your questions? Here you go. Of course they should keep fighting because the damage is done already. The preventable war was already in effect, so what else to do but fight it. The allied forces (which includes the Russians) had to do what they had to do.

But what should be done even more is the corruption in the own country should be fought and eliminated once it's found out. The traitors (Prescott Bush for example) should've been arrested and brought to trial. But NO, people like that apparently had (and still have) immunity because anyone who knew about it couldn't do much because the powers that be wouldn't allow it.

And furthermore I couldn't care less which country or who accomplished anything on the world stage, at least there are people doing it. People from all different countries have. If it wasn't for my people, including my grandfather here in Aruba working at the refinery you would not have been able to win battles in second world war You depended partly on refined fuel, which my people were working on. So quit talking nonsense about which country accomplished what which didn't. We were the first and one of the only countries on the western half of the Earth to be attacked by the NAZI's. Our harbour here at San Nicolas was attacked. It was SO important for the Germans to attack.
Furthermore I will defend any place as I see fit, as I have defended the U.S.A. at times against other members who saw fit to hurl insults at your country.


Says the one BEHIND HIS KEYBOARD. Don't even begin to attempt to judge members you don't know a single thing about. Quit the arrogance and you might get a little bit respect here on ATS.

Since you don't know me or what I've done or am doing, same back to you. You live in ARUBA, so it's pretty safe to assume that you cannot be a player on any world stage - except for missing tourists. On the other hand, I live in a country where I can actually do something about world events.

And I never said I was here to gain "respect", whatever that really means. I have the respect I need from people I know and that matter to me. BTW, I think the same is true of the U.S. And "high horse and preaching"? And here I thought I was just responding to your preaching about corporate profits and the U.S. always being "bad" as if you were the one on the high horse. Look in the mirror - closely - to see if what you attack me for isn't really you.

Really, do you think that your position here should give you immunity from having others disagree with you? Is it not arrogance to assume that only certain ones here are allowed to express opinion and dissent?

[edit on 9/25/2007 by centurion1211]

Hi.

I'm from the UK, a "little country" that used to own two-thirds of the world, which by your standards gives me the right to an opinion. We're also still "out there" and "in the game still trying"

Just so you know, I think the Bush Administration is comprised of war mongering idiots. I think that what the US is doing in the middle East is far from cool.

I'm glad you respected my opinion. Have a nice day.

Oh yes, your sniping at a mod for daring to have an opinion is, to be frank, crass an silly. You are trying to win an argument by questioning his credibility, which basically gives the impression that you don't have the power of your convictions and need to play the part of the "oppressed martyr" to try and reinforce your argument.

[edit on 25/0907/07 by neformore]

Position And Momentum


I'm not sure where that came from, but I can assure you that all members, including staff members, are entitled to their own opinions and all of us are required to comply with the AboveTopSecret.com Terms And Conditions Of Use.

Since this is Slug-Fest, we try to give members some leeway in the heat of discussion, but that goes for everyone here.

You are quite welcome to express your opinions and you most certainly need not agree with anyone against your will.

If you should ever see anything to suggest otherwise, please don't hesitate to let us know!

So you ignored my whole post then about the effort Aruba did to help save Europe during the world war. Very telling.



I highly doubt that, but that's just me.



Stop twisting my words. When did I tell you anything about the U.S. being bad? When did I say that? Where do you get that when I talk about corrupt corporation I'm talking about the whole U.S.?

No I am talking about those corrupt, powerful individuals that are in charge and cause the major conflicts on this planet due to their immense greed and hunger for power and profit at all cost. And the people who work for them. Some of these people are U.S. citizens and some others are Europeans. Not the average Joe who is trying to make a daily living.

Educate yourself about these people. Watch the "money masters" video, read about economic hitmen etc...



Isn't it arrogance to assume to think you know what I think about my posting here on ATS?

I am sorry you hate the US.

We certainly have made many bad decisions. All of it comes down to corrupt leaders, both Democrat and Republican. The leaders of this country have long stopped representing the people of the country.

So when you see the USA starting war after war, blame the leaders. Not the people. The people can't do anything anymore.

Why do you think we have Free Speech Zones, the Patriot Act, and the Military Commissions Act? Why do we have news outlets that do nothing but keep us entertained, and push pro-war propaganda instead of giving objective news? To keep the people under the thumb of those in power. why do we have wars? To make money for the people in power.

It all comes down to status quo. The establishment is all about protecting their power structure. Military, Political, Media, and Corporate leaders at the top. People like workers and soldiers at the bottom. That is the way it works.

As for some comments I've seen from other posters (paraphrased).

"The US has made all the right decisions in the war on terror." - Really? Call me when hundreds of Americans and Iraqis aren't dieing weekly from armed strife in Iraq, or when I can bring shampoo on a plane. The so-called "War on Terror," has wasted billions of dollars and destroyed millions of lives.

"If America behaved the way the Europeans did now in WW2, then Europe would be speaking German." - So Iran and Iraq are comparable to WW2 era Germany? You need to read up on your history. Germany was actively invading surrounding countries. Can't say the same about Iran or Iraq.

"We need to protect Israel from Iran." - Israel has 200-300 nuclear weapons, and one of the best trained and well-equipped militaries in the world. They are actually considered superior to the USA training-wise from what I have heard. If Iran attacks Israel, Israel will wipe the floor with them. We don't need to be playing guardian angel for Israel. They are very capable of dealing with enemies.

"The Europeans are upset because of the under-the-table deals they have with countries in the middle east." - Certainly, some countries are starting to trade oil in Euros and Yen. This is good business sense. The dollar is sinking. The Euro is rising- it makes more sense to have a reserve of Euros that will appreciate in value, as opposed to dollars, which will depreciate in value in the future.

[edit on 29-9-2007 by erkokite]

[edit on 29-9-2007 by erkokite]

[edit on 29-9-2007 by erkokite]

[edit on 29-9-2007 by erkokite]

A much needed thread here. Bravo.

Here's my response to some of the posts:

Kronos:



Speak for yourself, please. There are some in this forum who still think they're human and not crouch before the American flag.

Downtown436



I don't know about that. FEMA already infiltrated Christian churches, telling the pastors that they should persuade their parishioners to give up their arms in case of an emergency situation. Specifically, they're supposed to cite Romans 13. Let's hope the sheeple won't listen.

runetang



Well, Israel has nukes (which means, they've broken the non-nuclear arms agreement), but no one seems to care. I'd say let Iran have some, too, and then let them fight it out on their own.

nyk37



Wrong, nyk, that's the second version you're quoting there. We went to Iraq because we were ABSOLUTELY SURE that they had WMDs, remember? God, some of you people are like the drones in Orwell's "1984," you only remember the very last version of the government propaganda... proof that America's domestic Psyops efforts are not wasted. Today we're at war with Eurasia, so that means we've ALWAYS been at war with Eurasia.

No wonder so many people think we're numbnuts.

Yes, I believe that.
Islamic Terrorist training camps are in action in many places in the US. I believe that on a certain day, Islamic Terrorists will hit, at the same time, throughout the US.
The "law enforcement" will not be able to handle it. Armed citizens of the US be ready to defend.
Remember, when seconds count, the police are minutes away!

What an excellent post. How could I add to anything you said...except to say if the US were gone, the rest of the world would fall apart. First, certain areas of the world would dance in the streets, like on 9-11, then they would realize that we were keeping them economically viable. The economies of the world would collapse. Then the wars would start in earnest.