Why do we need to respect soldiers? I don't get it.

In an attempt to be reasonable and consistent, I will have to say that I agree with this. Taking a human life is not constructive, it just cements the cycle of violence.

and if the war is illegal they are already breaking the law.
It seems that "to shut up and soldier" is the common theme, but that implies moral bankruptcy.
Sure, the choices are difficult. no one ever said it would be easy.
I can't give respect to killers, in any form, pure and simple.
you don't protect my freedom, you project power and control.
Stop the cop out and start the revolution.

Oh, and the person who said that bush deserves assassination, I don't agree. That way he would never face up to the consequences of his actions.

reply to post by AotearoaSon

---

Does your revolution include violence? Just how would it work?

reply to post by jsobecky

---

Interesting question.
Personally, I would love to see a 'quiet' revolution, made up of people who deny violence and embrace peace.
Passive resistence is possible.

www.pukeariki.com...

reply to post by AotearoaSon

---

i see you added me as a foe. thats my first one im so happy..

i would like to see all the changes the world needs to end that way, but the sad fact is that without blood being spilled nothing is gonna change.
maybe in the future it will all be butterflies and lollypops, but until then my hats off to those who make the sacrafices that have to be made..

its a shame we cant get the veterans admin to feel the way a large majority of the people on this thread do. they would gladly take your back on this one..

[edit on 15pmu82007 by DaleGribble]

AotearoaSon

one more question. you added me as a respected foe. does that mean you are changeing you oppinon on respectine military?

reply to post by DaleGribble

---

"respected foe' Mr Gribble ...doesn't mean i respect the military or soldiers, even though you may be/may have been one...it's the terminology used by ATS...so nice try, but no cookie!

I admit I am an idealist, but someone had to be!

(editted for amendment to 'respected foe' !!)

[edit on 4-10-2007 by AotearoaSon]

Could you please explain this in a clear way? What exactly do you mean?
I'm a bit unsure of military parlance!

well in the us the va is the a group that provides services for vets that qualify after service. med care dissability pay things along those lines.
at the dron va medical hospital in south carolina, the docs are asses they treat you like crap in hopes of running you off. they make you wait for hours on end even when you are the only one there. most of them are med students not even real doctors yet, i could go on and on but i think this belongs in a diffrent thread..

ive talked to several vets who feel this same way. vets from wwii althe way up to iraq and everything in between..

im not saying you feel this exact way it the whole respect thing..

[edit on 15pmu92007 by DaleGribble]

reply to post by DaleGribble

---

I'm sorry that this occurs.

One doesn't need respect to have access to proper treatment.

[edit on 4-10-2007 by AotearoaSon]

there has been a pretty big stink about the whole va thing for quite some time here in the us. the worst part is most of the people that work for them are vets. but all they ever say is policy this and policy that. not mush you can do. and believe me if i could afford private health care i would not even bother with the va any more..

yeah but those people are there for one reason vets. that is why they have a job. and then we get treated like we do. i had a va rep tell me that just because i was a combat vet didnt mean he had to listen to me about a problem im having. i have only one problem with this the whole va revolves around combat vets. im pretty fummed right now let me calm down some and ill try to explain it more rationaly. unless some one else wants to chime in..

reply to post by DaleGribble

---

Hey, here's an idea: if the military budget was put into health and education then there would be no need to have private healthcare (such a misnomer, to me!) and maybe, just maybe, and hopefully, the people would realise how much they've been duped into thinking war is a neccessity?

There is alot of talk about what the government could be doing with the military money or what we could be doing instead of having a military.

However, Bush has gotten us so far in trouble that there is no way we can rid the US of military. You realize that if we did, the US would be gone in a day or two.

Because we are screwed basically, there is no way we can go without our soldiers. It would be asking for death.

The way I see it is like this: we can't controll what the government does. What the government says. We cannot controll what happens throughout the world (war wise) so instead of hating our fathers and brothers trying to do some good, why not support them. Life is too short to be hating American soldiers trying to protect the futures of our family and friends.
*Cant we all just get along*

That is absolute baloney, and shwos just the pure ignorance of the Left wing liberals. U.S. military spending is at a low point historically, and only consists of about 2% to 3% of the U.S. GDP. The government recently requested about 4%, higher than what's been beign spent, but still low by historical standards.

You know how much healthcare ALONE costs the U.S. GDP? 17%. Yes, 17% ALONE for healthcare, approximately two trillion of the U.S. $12 trillion dollar GDP.

Education is another huge suction of the GDP.

You could eradicate the military completely and barely make a dent in healthcare.

What we need to get rid of is this bloated entitlement system we have, which is what really costs. Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, education, etc...those are what continue to suck your tax dollars, not the military.



More entitlement and welfare spending that would only increase poverty.



This stuff has been occuring long before Bush. The terrorist problem started around 1979, with Jimmy Carter's handling of the Iranian terrorist situation.

Oh and BTW, for all those of you who wish to get rid of the military, remember that you can't call on the government to come save your butts when another Katrina-type incident happens (not that the Constitution says anywhere that the Federal government is supposed to save the people, but in our politically-correct, entitlement-age...).

oh yes....let's get rid of the Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, education, etc....

while we're hearing all the rhetoric about how our workforce needs to become better educated to compete in the world economy, let's make our workforce dumber by not providing them with basic education...

and well, I know you won't admit this, but alot of gov't money goes into medical research, ya know, so those of us who can afford the best in healthcare, can get the best in healthcare.... and well, that medicare and medicaid sends alot of patients to the doctors, the hospitals and the pharmacy who would not be going if it wasn't for those programs.. I imagine there would be quite a few nursed, doctors, radiologist, ect laid off if those programs were cut...

and well...what can I say, yes, let's do away with social security and refund everyone's contributions to those programs back to them today!!! oh ya, that's right, they can't do that, can they, they spent that money on bridges to nowhere and such!!

and yes!!! let's do away with the hud, the food stamps, heap, ect....
and actually force the employers to pay a living wage if they actually want living healthy beings working for them!

if you want my opinion we would be just as screwed doing that as we would doing away with the military....how about we get real here??

we need the military, and we need a way to ensure ALL of the workforce has the necessities to live...so they can do their jobs, unless of course, we don't need those jobs to be done?
what we don't need is bridges to nowhere, new malls, new hotels, museums, the grammys, and all the other crap that we call pork!

we are screwed, one party wants to tax us to death for things we don't need, and the other wants to put us hopelessly into debt as a nation for crap we don't need...what a wonderful choice they are offering..

I would like to know who taught you to hate so much? Your opinions are ignorant. I am so sorry to say that but it's true.

You see, all US soldiers have one mandate, to protect their country, it's citizens and it's freedoms from all enemies foreign and domestic. You are here right now expressing your disrespectful, ignorant opinions because someone died for that right. Not just 1 someone but thousands and thousands.

Soldiers don't follow orders blindly. Many have refused to follow orders that were either unethical or unlawful. They are hero's for doing so.

Soldiers swear an oath to serve their country and if necessary to give up their lives in it's defense. They deserve your respect and admiration. Would you do the same if called upon?

Soldiers are hero's in the truest sense of the word!!!!

Are all soldiers good? NO of course not just as not all people are good but making blanket statements like you have, about all soldiers is nothing less the absurd.

I'm glad you're at least intelligent enough to realize you were going to take heat for saying what you are saying. But did you notice that you were able to say it ???? Did you notice your hatefull speech wasn't censored by anyone??? Did anyone stop you from saying any of it???? NO !!!!!
Thats is due in part to many, many soldiers making many, many sacrifices over the years.

Now grow up, listen up and say THANK YOU to them.

I'm saddened to see people have this type of attitude.

Education has too much money being put into it as pure waste. The objective of high schools these days is to just graduate students, not to educate them. They get money and they must find ways to spend that money, which they do through stupid special programs. My mother works in special education, and they do stuff such as if you can't write your essay, they'll do your homework for you, help you with tests, etc...the money is wasted. They need to cut back the money going into education.

More money into any government program only creates more waste, and that is what it is doing in education.



Medicare is for old people, but medicaid is pure welfare. Nowhere in the Constitution does it state that people's tax dollars are supposed to pay for your healthcare. The people they give Medicaid too are usually lazy losers who don't work, such as the young women I know who have babies and the State then supports them.



They spent that money on more and more welfare programs which have thus far all failed miserably.



Employers pay a living wage plenty. The reason people struggle these days is two-fold: ONE, the average working-class person gets about 40% to 45% of their paycheck taken for taxes, which go to fund these welfare programs which support the lazy people who do not work. TWO, people have no financial discipline. They go and buy a home on loan, expensive cars on loan, a boat, jet skis, etc...all on loan, when they shouldn't. A house you need a loan for unless you're rich, and a car, but buy a reasonably-priced car! You buy the expensive stuff if you can afford it. Instead, the average American has a ton of credit card debt, personal bankruptcies have skyrocketed in this nation.





Without these excessively high taxes we'd have, which also encourage more and more people to not take personal responsibility because the government will support them, people would be able to afford the necessities of life a lot easier.



Agreed! What politicians do is they steal money from the public treasury to build things named after them, and then they complain they need to raise taxes to fix the infrastructure. In North Carolina, they just raided the State Highway Fund of about $200 million or so for example!



Actually, that's both parties really...this current Republican Party I admit has lacked fiscal discipline, but TRUE Republicans have a lot of fiscal discipline. This is one reason why the American people have lost so much faith in their Republican Party as of late.

I get the impression that you're pretty much against any military deployment, regardless of how the individual soldiers behave. If that's your opinion, you have a right to it. All I ask is that you remember this: the military doesn't send itself to war - politicians do that. If you want to blame someone for war, please blame those wearing the suits, not the uniforms.

[edit on 7-10-2007 by Flatwoods]

reply to post by jfj123

---

Nice post. Your insight is correct.

When in the military, your CO dictates what you do. You are given orders, and are expected to follow them to the letter. End of story.
When I was given orders I did exacly that.
HOWEVER.
I was never engaged in battle against an enemy during an actual warring situation.
If I were given orders to harm innocent civilians, I would probably be CM for failing to follow orders.
For all of you who have never served, you just can't understand the mentality. You work from sunrise until sunset. You do whatever a superior officer orders you to do. A man you didn't know 6 months ago becomes someone you will die trying to protect, and vice versa. Wear a patch on your shoulder and you'll see what real pride is. Salute the flag when you see her flying ever so gloriously. It's because of our brave men and women who served, protected and died that you even have the RIGHT to condemn them.

I'm stealing from a post another member wrote that I read here, and I'm paraphrasing:

"We as soldiers fight so that you have the right to spit on us."

Do you realize how true that statement is?

I know that all caps is bad, but I must in this instance.

BROTHERS. I STAND AT YOUR SHOULDER, AND PROTECT YOUR BACK. I WEEP FOR THE FALLEN, AND PROUDLY SAY 'GOD BLESS AMERICA'. WHEN I HEAR THE STAR SPANGLED BANNER, I PROUDLY STAND, HOLD MY HAND ON MY HEART, AND QUIETLY THANK GOD THAT I LIVE IN A COUNTRY WHERE MY BIGGEST COMPLAINT IS THAT I HAVE TO WAIT AN EXTRA 20 MINUTES IN AN AIRPORT SECURITY CHECKPOINT.

RESPECT. Darn right.
For EVERYONE that served, here is something from the lombozo man:

THANK YOU!