Echelon what purpose does art and music serve communism?

Sure people might work in a farm or store to supply food, but in a communist society Art has no place. It is worthless, useless, and doesn't feed the masses. The soviet union was about as bleak as you could get. If it wasn't a statue of some leader, or a giant red portrait, it was 200 years old.

And the idea that people will just do the jobs necissary of them in a communistic society is laughable.

Who is going to clean the toilets? Who is going to pick up garbage? Who will be the janitors? What other horrible jobs can you think of that people will willingly do?

I figured you might possibly solve this by having people's work schedules rotate daily or weekly or such, where you do 1 job you love, 1 that is necissary but not sucky, and 1 that you absolutely hate. But again, that's all getting QUITE 1984ish.

Sincerely,
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Echelon, don't see my post like an offensive post, but I think that you're completely nuts with your communists stuffs.

Communism and socialism have NEVER worked, don't work and will NEVER working. For a simple good reason.
These ideology are against the human nature.

Because I want to be paid more for doing a qualified profession. I want to choose who I want to marry and I want a country led by an elected representitive.

And the Politburo more equal?

In the current status of human psychological evolution, a true communistic system is impossible since we have not yet evolved away from selfish tendencies. While there is certain joy to be thinking of the hippie-like euphoria of a true communal paradise, such a place can only exist in your mind.

The "mass" of humanity wants to be "told" what to do and when. It is deeply ingrained in our group nature to seek to follow strong leadership... the alpha male if you will. Perhaps in another 5,000 years the individual might evolve an awareness of the overall good of society. However, until then, pure communism will continue to fail each time it is attempted.

if there was no art in communism, then what would there be on people's tv sets?
we have to brainwash them through something...
don't be misled into believing that we would all turn into robots.
it's the same as asking 'what purpose does art and music serve capitalism?'
there is time for all that... because we have to work less... we are no longer forced to fill the pockets of the capitalists.
the s.u. had the longest vacations (i believe it was 3 to 4 months, not sure)
a well-rested worker is a productive worker...


the gov't doesn't decide that for you. you still have all your freedoms.
and you do elect your representatives.

we can and will evolve. but, before the working class regains consciousness, the conditions of capitalism will worsen. then, a new marx will be born, who will once again introduce this theory, and lead humanity towards salvation.

Hmm... I explained a few months ago why these ideologies are not against human nature... It was a discussion I had with TC...

P.s: three good books to read to understand communism are "Conversations with God" 1,2 and 3 by Neal Donald Walsch

There is ONLY 1 good book to read to understand communism and socialism.

xmb.abovetopsecret.com...

Yeah Right...

"from each according to ability to each according to need"

the essence of a communist politic.
I really can't see a down side to that principle.
Certainly seems a lot better than

"from each according to what we think we can get out of them to each who has the resources to pull it off the most successfully"

Lupe, it's the same for this phrase : "from each according to ability to each according to need".

- What for those who don't have any ability ?

- And who can say, that you, me, everybody, need or don't need something ?

I think your missing the point of the quote.

- What for those who don't have any ability ?
thats the point. For a start everyone has an ability, unless your in a vegitative state, communism assumes that all people can provide somthing to society, from physical labour to technical expertise to knowledge to poetry.

- And who can say, that you, me, everybody, need or don't need something ?

the two sections of the quote cannot be taken in isolation.

~need~ is viewed as multi layered, all a person "needs" is a roof and enough food and water. There is plenty of this to go round, so, once all people have this, further need can be developed to enrich life.

some needs are obvious, others are personal and subtle. However once one accepts that money is not a real thing, its only influence being the aquisition of other things, then we see that all our society produces could still be produced without it. All needs you have now could be provided in its abscence.

Think about it another way.

I don't need but I'd quite like a new car.
at present from the library I can see a garage with about 50 cars, none of which are owned by anyone. they sit there until somone accumulates enough money to purchase one.

remove money and the cars are still there, the only difference is I don;'t need cash to get it. the person who built the car doesn't need my money spent through the car to pay their wages because they are in the same position, the food for their dinner tonight is sitting in Sainsburys waiting for them to just take it.

Everyone thinks communism breaks down because people are greedy and will allways want to accumulate more than other people. this isn't true. If everything is provided then the impetus is not to accumulate but to concentrate on what you actually want.

where it really breaks down is where there are situations where to many people want the same thing, or large numbers of people don't want to do specific jobs.

Lupe_101, it's an untopian world that you are depicting.

I don't say it's bad or that you wrong, but I don't believe in this world. You'll have allways peoples who'll have more than their neighbors, allways.

But we saw what was happening when a country ( Cuba, China, former USSR, North-Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Erythrea...etc...etc ) has tryed this gov method. IT DOESN'T WORK !These country stay poors, do not evolve, spend their times and wealth to buid a war machine, they oppresse their own populations and so on....

Your utopian star-trek world work ONLY in your tv-set, not in the real world.

Be more pragmatic and less utopian.

But I agree on one thing. We have to many problems. And these problems are comming from our human nature, who's half-good and half-bad.

"Chinese Playwright Leads a Cultural Revolution, of Sorts..."

src: www.npr.org...

Communism is not evil it is fact the perfect political stance in which everyone gets and equal part of what the country as a whole creates. Unfortunatly as the Russians, Chinese and Cubans found out it does not work in prinipal. Stalin was the only real 'evil' leader of the USSR. What he did was wrong and should never be seen again but it was not communism that made him do it he did it cause he was a power-mad paranoid lunatic. The Chinese have realised that communism does not work and combined their style of communism with the capitalist economic model which means they will stay in power for ever while getting money from the soon to be largest economy in the world. So everybody get ur phrase books out cos it looks like were going to be speaking chinese in 50 years

I live in "postcommunistic" country and I see very much funny stories and legends about living here. After fall of socialistic government in 1989 there used to go to Czech Republic many young Americans to teach English into schools. At first they believed that we have collective wifes and that we must to live in large barracks where is one big bedroom for all They also believed, that we do not know computers, TV, cars and so on.. Their stupidity was very funny In 1989 there were not so big differencies between living style in near Austria or Germany. There were only lack of luxury goodies as for example electronic, western cars and so on becouse it was very expensive. Reason was high duties on state borders and also embargo from west. There were no rich persons like Rockeffeler or Gates, but there weren't beggars or dossers.

There is also interesting conspiracy theory of fall of Soviet Empire with details on Czech Rep - "Analysis of 17th December". The core of theory is plot of Masons and Jews - well known similarity with Iluminati and NWO (for example president Vaclav Havel is one of them). Fall of governments in East Europe was prepared in support of CIA and KGB. The paper was written in 1990 and predict desintegration of Czechoslovak federation to 2 states -> Czech and Slovak republics. It predicted also some interesting events from home political scene. Some parts of "analysis" are drib similar to "The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion"

If the freemasons helped to desintegrate the communism, may be that they (FM) are not so bad after all !

I'm not sure it was done by FM. It could be Iluminati or some "Unknown ONES" who want to rule the World But I believe that they are worse than commies !

I'll try to translate little part of "analysis" paper (sorry for my poor English)

"...Under the veil of democracy, peace and humanity the Europe will be divided into small weak parts and big strong states will be destroyed..." (European Union)..."The reason is raise of Big Israel.."

The autor of paper also claims that the USA are vasal of Israel - "Jewish-Mason experiment"

"...The new gained so called >>freedom<< is worse than slavery... Predominate citizen manipulated from outside by media and throwaway(or consumable is right word ?) living style. The human who is ready for reception of any sort of new dictatorship" - (maybe dictatorship of money ?) - "..., the citizen not eligible to act by separate individual consideration..."

[Edited on 3-1-2003 by Roderick_Usher]

Nay, you wish to know what the perfect political stance is? LOOK AT THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!

It is quite a funny story really, I was sitting with most of my russian class (of which many were political science majors and in law and such) and it dawned on me what true political freedom was.

It wasn't capitalism, or communism, but as I called it then and there a SLIDING SCALE! To my friends, this was not a new concept, but to me it was as if an anvil fell on my head I couldn't stop mentioning it, and they were all, "yeah we know..." so it dawned on me that most of America is quite stupid and thinks we are capitalists.

But nay, we are what only a few may at most 5, nations on earth are. Sliding Scales!

During the Great Depression, we reacted accordingly, and became very close to communist, but shortly after, during WW2, we again reacted, and became very Capitalist!

We are simply a sliding scale, the weight shifting to whichever political spectrum it needs to to balance things out.

Communism fails to do this, Capitalism fails to do this, this is evident in Communist dictatorships and Facist dictatorships.

But America, the light and greatest nation of this earth, being the freest nation as well! Has for the its whole existance, been a sliding scale, England I suppose is also, though they have a bunch of traditions that aren't harmful, but do limit their ability to "slide".

I can not really think of ANY nations other than the USA and possibly Brittain, MAYBE though doubtful, but still possibly, Israel. Maybe this is why the rest of the world hates us so much They are all zealots, while we are free to be both communist and capitalist, which ever is the stronger choice for us at the moment.

GO USA!

Sincerely,
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