U.S. gains 1 new immigrant every 30 seconds..we need to stop this.

Which immigration laws were broken? Which land was stolen?

Can you cite the law verbatim? Can you provide proof of land ownership?

In order for something to be stolen, it must first be owned.

Your racism is shining through.

First, land was stolen from the Indians who had been here for thousands of years before us.

Second, so you're saying Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao, and Stalin did nothing wrong? Hey, genocide is genocide no matter who you're killing, so if you think the genocide of the Indians wasn't a crime then I guess Hitler was really the good guy...

Also, how is it racism to point out Europeans came, slaughtered the Indians, stole their land, raped their women, used biological warfare to speed up the genocide process?

Geez, Walking, where have you been for the past couple of years? Not only has the welfare and poverty issue in New Orleans been a HUGE issue, but there are many many studies that have been done. Get away from this black screen and do some research-digging! DENY IGNORANCE! If you were paying attention just a week ago, NOLA hit the news again -- there were uprisings in the area because Section 8 housing was being destroyed for the NOLA Revitalization Plan. BTW, that Revitalization does not include plans to bring back the poverty and below-poverty population that has been the blight of the area and of the State of Louisiana. LOL And those on the Revitalization Plan are LOCAL decision-makers and politikers who can’t build an attractive city when the “welfare mindset” corrodes the entire region.



What experience do you have with NOLA? Any? Or are you an armchair theoretical lib who likes to tell anyone that your ideologies will work, even though you have no experience or factual evidence to support your hypotheses?

Not every person, but there is factual evidence and stats that show a large percentage have the "welfare mindset" and have done little or nothing positive for NOLA. To the contrary -- they have created problems, not just fiscally but criminally. Check out the Census figures -- they are all there, representative of the "welfare mindset". And you can find the incarciration rates, too.

Now remember those NOLA Revitalization plans I mentioned? Are those plans inclusive of these types of individuals?





Good one….DHS security funding for the Midwest is not a form of "welfare with a dash of bribery". Nice try, though.... made me chuckle.

Mentioning disasters that were caused by tornadoes or ice storms are not of equal comparison to a hurricane disaster. You can try to race-bait me, but your bait won't be taken and information will refute your ridiculous theory. Race cards belong in a card game.

First, LEARN what disasters really are and what type of destruction is left behind. Tornadoes typically strike in a very small area. While some tornadoes have travel-paths and some tornado activities are in cluster-formations across wide areas, the typical tornado is often a touch-down or a touch-down with a short travelling time. Theyre not all F5s.

Federal disaster money is available only when the destruction is financially assessed beyond a certain financial cap. Depending upon the type of disaster, Federal money may or may not be allocated and only after financial assessments are made of entire regions.

Ice storms are a very different type of storm and are generally not even classed as a Federally declared disaster. Didn't know that one either, did you? Ice falls under "winter storm" and they are classed as Emergency Declarations or Federal Declarations, depending, again, on what type of damage and how much damage. You should know these things. Oh, but wait. I forgot.... You’re still running on and on, rhetorically, rather than factually even though you are trying to do that lib thing and revert blame and deflect. Nevermind…

Typically winter storms with ice cause outages of power and roof or car problems when heavy limbs break due to ice. Once power is lost, households tend to need to relocate elsewhere temporarily. If there is sufficient damage to warrant a Federal declaration for individuals affected, the assistance is typically for hotel/motel fees, and some tree or roof damage to homes. Not exactly like a disaster from a hurricane.

One of the missions of FEMA is to provide disaster assistance funding to individuals (mostly those who are uninsured) after disaster strikes. Congress determined the type of disasters, the amount of assistance, and the way that FEMA determines what is covered by disaster assistance.

Incidently, since you seem rather agitated about “ice storm” and tornado funding (or rather “aid”, as you call it), have a glance at the total funds for each Federal disaster over the last 2, 5, or 10 years. While you are checking the figures out, be sure to watch those disasters that always happen along the Gulf coastlines. Those are the FEMA-states: Louisiana, Florida, and Texas. They’re three of the states hit most often. And amazingly, each state has a diverse mix of races. Texas has had 81 Federally-declared disasters, Florida has had 59, and Louisiana has had 53.

But since you like comparisons and you are agitated at my bringing up Hurricane Katrina, why don’t we examine it? There has been an absolutely amazing difference in the way hurricane victims behaved when Katrina hit LA versus the way Floridian hurricane victims behaved when Florida was struck with THREE big hurricanes and a tropical storm in just 33 days (Tropical Storm Bonnie, Hurricanes Charley, Frances, Ivan). Much of Florida was DEVASTATED and people were homeless. But Floridians didn’t rob and ransack the region, nor did Floridians force the local police to flee the area, did they?

Think it might have anything to do with a "welfare mindset" learned from a life of welfare and government-parenting??

Well golly gee, Walking. When I have been speaking of the “welfare mindset” I have been discussing the lifestyle that has been created by the world of welfare. I’ve been using the phrase “welfare mindset” throughout my posts, not the financial aspects of the costs of welfare. The price of welfare programs allocated through HHS is not measured in those dollars and cents like it is measured in the apathy and dying-spirit of those who are part of the generational welfare system. However, if I were looking into the financial aspects of the welfare systems in place now, I would be sure to remember that there are more agencies besides HHS contributing to these welfare handouts. SSI is paid through general tax revenues, not through HHS. In 2005, the benefits paid out on SSI were $38.1 billion.
Source: www.socialsecurity.gov...

Section 8 housing is through HUD. How about finding those figures and then re-total everything for us?

All of those billions DO add up, you know.



We can have fun in a civilized manner without the derogatory stuff.

Your turn.


[edit on 30-12-2007 by Zoltan]

Well you avoided the question, so I will ask it again: Can you prove the land was stolen? Ya see, in order for something to be stolen, first it must be OWNED. Most indian tribes didnt believe in the idea of OWNERSHIP of land, hence they merely occupied it. Occupation doesnt equal ownership, otherwise we would OWN Iraq.

Uh, who's showing the racism here? Only whites are allowed to own land? They'd love you back in the 1700's, only white man can own land, Indians aren't even human to you are they? After all Indians had to fight in the Supreme Court to prove they were human...

reply to post by HHH Is King

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Where did he say that the Indians cant own land? He is simply saying that the Indians did not have any concept of land ownership due to their nomadic lifestyles.

In short, they DID NOT own the land.

Please refrain from smoking crack before you post on ATS. You dont make any sense.

Wow, the command of rhetoric is impressive from both sides...LOL.

Immigration in and of it self is not the problem. The fact that people are crossing both borders, north and south, and coming ashore pretty much wherever they choose is the problem.

Illegality aside, for the moment, the porous nature of our borders needs to be addressed desperately.

Criminals of all kinds are coming across the borders. Terrorists can do it to. Amazing that they haven't already...

This must be addressed, and the Presidential candidate that does will at least have my attention...

reply to post by Zoltan

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Wait wait... I want to make sure I read this right...



Hmmm, yep, looks like I did read that right. So, your solution for poverty is to smash their homes and tell them to screw off for being poor? I'm glad I already think you're dumb as a plank, else I would have lost some serious respect for you just there.


Seven years of my own life, four generations of ancestors on my mother's side, and current relatives living there, or at least in the immediate area. Yourself?



It is, actually. When bean festivals get money to protect them from terrorists, and LAX and the statue of liberty don't, then there's something screwy going on.



Then please, explain to me why you continue to refuse to mention the "welfare mentality" of primarily-white areas receiving federal aid for disasters, yet you paint the left-behinds in New Orleans (the majority of whom are black) as lazy, stupid, useless blights on society who's only purpose in life is crime, fraud, and breeding more criminals? Why do you express glee at the destruction of the section 8 housing in New Orleans, yet don't at all criticize the building of such housing in Alaska, North Dakota, or Nevada? Why do you feel your tax dollars are wasted in New Orleans, but not Missouri?

Speaking of....


Remember what I said about you not telling others to "deny ignorance"?

You don't need to actually use the word "'n-word'" to express the same sentiment the word carries, you know. I'm truly not certain if you're aware that you're even doing it.


No, actually, I'm not. I'm agitated about the fact that, out of all those, you can only gripe and moan about New Orleans. Are you having trouble keeping up?


No, they took a break due to the hurricanes (Ever been to Miami? Wear a vest.) But they happily suckled at the federal teat, which was your initial point. Funny how damn fast the goal posts change with you people.



My bad! When I think of welfare I think of programs such as WIC, food stamps, and the sort. Looking at HUD... Oh, hey. Just a little over HALF the budget that DHHS gets - $35.201 billion.

reply to post by ChrisF231

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Only the Wanabi tribe, actually, with their chicken feathers and common descent from a single "Cherokee princess." The rest of us actually held and defended territory, pretty damn vigorously. Even those "nomads" out on hte plains kept to a certain area they traveled, hunted in, and claimed as theirs, to be defended from interlopers.

Why did the Roanoke colony disappear? The Tuscarora got tired of them being on Tuscarora land.
Why did the Powhatan attack Jamestown? Because the settlers were stealing land.
Why did the Dutch pay $23 for Manhattan Island? because the Manhattan tribe lived there and sold it to them.
Why did the Navajo and Apache get a reputation for being really, really mean fighters? Because they were trying to keep other people the hell off their land.
Why were the Lakota and Cheyenne so often in alliance against the Crow and Hidatsa? Because they each wanted to move into the others' territory.
Why did the Ute side with the United States against the Apache? Because they wanted some land the Apache held.
Why is the removal of the Chickasaw, Choctaw, Cherokee, Muskogee, and Seminole to Oklahoma a big deal? Because they owned a large portion of the Americna southeast and were evicted for it.
Why does Nunavut exist? Because the Inuit have always held that area as theirs, and theirs alone.
Why are most American native tribes currently embroiled in litigation? To have the land rights promised them in the many treaties recognized and honored like they're supposed to be.

Natives ahd no concept of land ownership? Yeah sure, and whites were completely drunk all the time and lived exclusively off cheese.

reply to post by seagull

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Why would they need to? They can get here perfectly legally, like all of the 9/11 hijackers did. See, funny thing about this deal... Generally if we know you're a terrorist, you've probably already died somewhere. Send a new recruit to get a student visa, and he'll get through the gates, buy an all-beef corn dog, and be in the states just like that.

Why the hell would a well-funded terrorist organization (Let's be honest, the poor ones generally stick to their own neighborhoods) send some doofus to trudge through the Sonora, when they can mail him in perfectly legit?

Now I know what MM means by a good ol fashioned poo flinging contest. 10 million illegal aliens are causing many hospitals to close their doors. They drive down wages. Unfortunately, many riff raff rap star wanta bes also tag along for the ride increasing crime factors. You wanna know what happens to Americans on the TexMex border a few hundred yards on the wrong side of the fence with a firearm, or college yahoos in Tiajuana who get a bit loopy on mescalin? They have to grease some policia palms to get the hell out of there. You think for one minute the Mexican politico would put up with that sh$#? He He, can you say Por favor, can you pass the vaseline.

reply to post by The Walking Fox

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Walking, I see that you STILL don't read or follow ATS posts very well. Nor do you, nor can you, provide much in the way of factual information. Why aren't you providing anything to substantiate your points and your statements? Can't find anything relevant?

#1 The NOLA Revitalization plan is not a plan that I had anything to do with. I'm not a resident of LA: never was, never will be. If you wanna keep on with your blame-game, go poke at the politicians and everyone else who had their little hand in the LA-Plot-For-The-Future.

#2a Your admission of being a resident of LA was long it waiting for it. I had a side-bet going, so I'm ahead of this blame-game of yours. HAHA

#2b My experiences with LA and NOLA have been from professional experience, working at FEMA, then DHS/FEMA.



Apathy=apathy. I don't and won't "refuse to mention" welfare mentality of ANY race or socioeconomic group. There are plenty of measurements, studies, papers, and organizations both public and private, that delve into this huge issue. It is NOT a black-and-white issue....it is a mindset, a problem that no matter what color, age, or sex you are, when you are in-the-system on welfare, the ability and tendency to get sucked into the "welfare mindset" is prevalent. What I have noticed is that your perception and interpretation of anything that is uttered aside from a point of view that 100% aligns with your own is simply unacceptable and racist. This is the problem of people who are unable to examine facts and who have plugged into the rhetoric-machine that plays that insipid race-card over and over again, ad infinitum ad nauseum. LOOK UP THE FACTS. Make informed decisions and free yourself of the mind-chains that are locking you up from seeing the reality of this problem. If you keep denying this, you yourself allow it to go on, even into the next generation.

Show me anywhere that I have said NOLA residents (past or present) are what you claim I have stated. Look at all of the underlying contributing causes to this problem -- which has happened to NOLA. Show me -- with proof -- that there is no correlation to the utter failure of a group of people.



I expressed glee? I merely stated the current state of affairs in NOLA. Am I surprised? Not at all. And some of the NOLA residents who took the Houston escort-service outta town have chosen not to return at all. No surprise.

Most Section 8 housing isn't brand-spankin'-new stuff, Section 8 housing is a voucher system and is arranged with owners of said housing units. Low income housing is not the same thing as Section 8.

I think that any tax dollars used to build below-sea level is fiscally unfeasible.

Basic FEMA law: Once a home has been hit with a flood, the owner/resident is required by law to get flood insurance. Of course, that's through NFIP, the government. Kinda interesting arrangement, huh? Can people on welfare afford insurance? No. Can people on welfare afford the added NFIP insurance? Double-no. FEMA laws: No NFIP coverage, no Federal/State money once you've had a flood claim with FEMA.

So, since you know all there is about this subject, let me ask you this -- is this a fair set-up for these people?

reply to post by The Walking Fox

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This is very true, but they also have attempted to cross the border, remember the one that was caught crossing at the Vancouver border checkpoint? Where there's one, there is at least the possibility of others who might be a bit better at their subterfuge.

I can see that you’re having a tough time trying to struggle through with some of the stuff I’m providing, but hey, you did a little look-up homework, so that’s better than zippo. Since you are resorting to clipping word-bites from what I'm writing to use them for your own agenda, I'll restate myself again.

The link you posted telling me to "deny ignorance" is for a FEMA disaster in 2002 for the state of Missouri. What's your point? There is one that was declared just the other day, too – December 27, 2007.

Let’s review what I wrote earlier:



I hate seeing someone's ignorance show up over and over again. I hope by reading this again, you might understand a bit better. I also think you are getting confused with some of the types of disaster incidents and causes of damage. Ice is not a disaster category -- it is a CAUSE of damage.

The disaster you are referencing is a "Severe Winter Ice Storm” and is filed as a “Winter Storm” incident. That’s the actual classification. The causes of damage would include ice (and probably rain or snow) and maybe even wind.

FYI, here are the types of disasters FEMA classes them under. Where is “ice” listed?
Chemical / Biological
Coastal Storm
Dam/Levee Break
Drought
Earthquake
Extreme Temperatures
Fire
Flooding
Hurricane/Tropical Storm
Industry Hardship
Landslide/Mudslide
Nuclear
Severe Storm
Technological
Terrorism
Tornado
Tsunami
Typhoon
Virus Threat
Volcano
Wildfire
Winter Storm

I think I dummied this down about as well as I can. Can’t make it any easier for you than that. If you still choose ignorance as your best friend, I can't help you any more, Bucko.

To those members who are focussed on the person with the opinion rather than the opinion that person holds; fair warning, Miss Manners WILL come visit.

On this page alone is enough uncivil name-calling to keep her quite busy slapping wrists/fines.

The ball, not the player.

This is an important topic. This being an election year and all, it'll be mentioned more than once...then ignored.

Immigration helped build this country. Immigrants from all over the world beg, borrow, sell themselves, and die to get here. There is nothing even remotely wrong with that, in and of itself. There have to be rules, though, and the immigrants, or the want to be immigrants, must play by those rules. The rules suck? Then change 'em, don't ignore them.

The borders, north and south are about as porous as it's possible to be. To say nothing of our coastlines...illegal aliens can and do get in easily, far too easily. It's harder for me, a citizen born and raised, to get in and out of this country. There's something just a little wrong with that scenario, IMHO.

The borders need protecting, and closing to illegals. This goes without saying, or should. Counties in the border states are going broke under the pressure.

Our oh so lovely wanna be Presidents need to have concrete answers and plans for this. Empty rhetoric will not get my vote, only my contempt.