Sounds to me like you are doing just that, you belong to no denomination you seem to be saying you march to the beat of your own drum.

So it suits your own needs, just like those you mention.

The cherrys are ripe for the picking.

You said you don't mean "All" Christians while you respond to me but don't say a thing to those who said "Christianity is the most evil thing on the planet in any form"

you say you are a Christian yet knowing how difficult it is to stem extremism from overflowing into the moderate groups being never far away,, so why stoke it.

It is happening to Muslims where now they are muslim extremists no matter what

The American Japanese during WWII who were in this country and put into camps is another example where ALL Japanese were persecuted supicion that they were all "the enemy".

Has it not occured to you that hate generalizes and love is particular?

While you say you would rather avoid them and mean to start no trouble, then say Bashing them is fair game and the proper thing to do....

Well which is it Bud?? which is the proper thing to do?

Bash them or avoid them?

Seems You may be the one that people will discern the truth about.

seems you started the kind of thing that could easily make it harder for

any Christian,

Even,, YOU

- Con

[edit on 13-2-2008 by Conspiriology]

It's pretty easy to get trapped in a "they hate christians" loop and think that everyone who is an atheist, of another religion or of another point of view are out to bash a religion.

This is clearly not the case in this thread, apart from the odd badly put statement - the posts I've seen about christians being this, that or the other I don't respond to. I'm under no obligation to and don't want the thread derailed.

However, I am astounded and disgusted by the tampering and editting of other members posts to make them say something they didn't.
Most times this is an accident - or at least I'd like to think so.

But in this thread, there has been a concerted campaign to discredit anyone with an opposing view - as far as I'm concerned, this is not a christian thing to do.

It's bad enough that misunderstandings occur when using a written medium, but to actually deliberately edit another members post to make them seem something they are not is reprehensible, if not downright despicable.

If this continues, I fully intend to make use of the ignore button.

Some food for thought from the T&C, which can be found here

1). Posting: You will not post any material that is knowingly false, misleading, or inaccurate.

This thread is about extremism in certain groups who call themselves christians - whether you agree with what they call themselves or not, that is how they describe themselves.

If you have a problem with the article, go to the people who wrote it.
Don't shoot the messenger.

[edit on 13/2/2008 by budski]

Christians on ATS can only be described as outdated at best and downright evil at worst. - freeborn

The full paragraph from which you heavily edited the quote actually states:

Heavely edited????

I took this out "Indeed, some of the opinions expressed by so called"

You have deliberately edited a post in an attempt to blacken the name of a fellow ATS member to further your own agenda of portraying ALL atheists and agnostics as evil wrong doers who are all conspiring to "overthrow" Christianity.

Oh now I'm arguing with a mind reader??

Ironically I always show up just after a thread like those bumm rapping Christians gets well on its way. Then I point out the same thing I have here. The things you say I took out of context ? I get that when Atheist give those silly "Bible Contradicts itself" all the time. They are constantly taking quotes from the Bible and doing that same thing.

So Let me tell you something Freeborn,, YOU HAVEN'T SAID ONE NICE THING ABOUT THEM AND ALL OF US GET IT THAT THEY AIN'T YOUR CUP OF TEA SO FORGIVE ME IF YOU AIN'T MINE FOR MAKING YOUR FIRST RESPONSE TO ME FULL OF AD HOM.

An excercise in manipulation straight out of the Josef Goebells School Of Propaganda.

Jeez get some new material guy that one is getting real tired.

At no point during this thread have I, or the OP, ever stated that ALL Christians are evil extremists yet your continued insistence that we are part of some plot to discredit Christianity is quite bizzare.

I have posted the quotes three times where people have said that and where you made contradictions to budski. When he says extremism will exist as long as religion exists then we have a problem with religion don't we? Now I know that is an logical fallacy however it is the one HE USED when he said he had no problem with religion but that man messing it up caused the problem then says,, so religion is a problem.

You see?? I think MAN is the cause as he says so MAN is the problem, but since he likes to use that kind of logic

Now why do you care if I do that?

I am honestly unable to post anything else in response for fear of contravening T&C and posting an outright personal insult, something I really try not to do, (though sometimes fail).

I know the feeling,, soon as you said I was stuck up and a bigot.

For the first time on ATS I am tempted to use the ignore button, and that is very, very sad

Sorry I don't share your grief but perhaps that is what you should do
seems to me you are just real angry about my stand against Career Atheist Forum Warriors who are Antagonistic to Christianity.

I didn't just come down on the last drop of rain guy,, me,, I know when you talk about Religion, Politics, that kind of thing can get to ya but YOU were the one who started the ad hom's with me, the harshest thing I called you was a "smart guy"

Ouch

- Con
PS; Ill do you the favor freebore,, you are ignored

[edit on 14-2-2008 by Conspiriology]

Can we please stop with the finger pointing and attacks?

There is no reason why this can't be discussed in a calm and rational manner.

There is no anti-christian agenda here.

If a person believes there is, contact a mod and express your concerns through the proper channels.

This kind of thing does nothing for anyone, apart from raising blood pressure.

Let me repeat - this is not an anti-christian thread.

This is an anti-extremist thread.
These particular extremists just happen to call themselves christians - their words, not mine.

reply to post by budski

---

Gee Budski,, where was your righteous indignation your Religion was attacked as the most evil thing on the planet by maya?

You can get as sanctimonious as you can mock up but that doesn't make the comments I quoted from any less accurate. The fact is if anyone wants to check THEY ARE RIGHT HERE ON THE THREAD I GOT THEM FROM.

You just get angry when someone catches you accusing people of lies while making the allegations veiled behind your own lies your own hypocrisy.

I sure can't see a Christian standing with every agnostic and atheist like the Christian you say you are. I find it hard to believe when flice and maya and whoever else expressed extreme prejudice to Christians in general while you don't say a thing about that. Guess that means you really didn't want to stop the discussion from going over into ALL religions afterall.

- Con

Deal I would like nothing less but it IS hard to know just where you stand and I do care about Christianity and am very tired of seeing people talk smack about it. Undo was here trying to say the same thing so was extrozero. I was here from the start but didn't start typing till I saw what Maya and flice said, That won't get by me .

I will apologise for things taken wrong or given that way. I really don't like arguing either.

By the way, I know it wasn't your intention but the title of the thread "Christian Right's Emerging Deadly Worldview: Kill Muslims to Purify the Earth" does lend some latitude for mis-representation when saying it is a thread about extremeism.

I have seen those three guys speak and they aren't the Christian right hell they are babes at best in this Religion. I hardly get that justifys using such sensational titles as the Christian Rights "deadly world view"

It's assinine they call it that

- Con

[edit on 13-2-2008 by Conspiriology]

reply to post by Conspiriology

---

They have every right to express their opinion - if it's abusive or out of line the mods will sort it.

That's what the alert button is for.

It's not up to us to moderate the board, and others opinions are just as valid as my own.

Don't try and pull the "we're all christians together" routine on me.

I think that if god has a problem with what they say, he'll let them know when the time is right.

Your version of christianity is obviously different from mine - I prefer to try and be tolerant.

Evidently that's part of the teachings of jesus that you're not familiar with - but that doesn't mean not to try.

I know it's hard sometimes - but that's what the mods are there for.

If you feel someone is out of line, just hit the button to complain or alert a mod.



[edit on 13/2/2008 by budski]

As I do mine




hehe make no mistake bud,, that is the last thing I was thinking.




I see many that are invalid hyperbole and ad hom but thats just me.




Yeah riiight thats why you said bashing them is the proper thing to do.
Me,, I think it's best not to poke the bear.




Oh Ill never be the Christian you are,, that you can count on




It really isn't that hard, I been at this on lots of forums for a long time and I have seen it all before in similar ways. It was Freeborn that seemed to be blowing a gasket but he was like that the first time he responded for someone else to me.




Ok got it.

- Con




[edit on 13-2-2008 by Conspiriology]

yes, the story was a little sensationalist - but we're not supposed to change or edit headlines.

There are still some insights there though - like why these guys were giving speeches to the air force.

I think that's a pretty valid question.

I also think that the question of extremism in religion is valid - and that's why I posted the article.

As for other points:
if somebody says something like "christians are the devils spawn" then usually they arelooking for one thing, and one thing only - a response.
Once you fire up and give it to them, they go away satisfied, and you've bought into their game.

My other point is that MY faith and spirituality are strong enough that I take no notice of what others think of it - if they've got a problem, let them fire away. It says more about them than it does about me.

Budski,

That is the one of the most biased unfounded articles I have ever read.

I don't know these guys, but we don't have to take their word for the dangers of "Islamofascism."

Regardless of what name it is given, the radical wing of Islam, which is no small potatoes, has declared war on the Western world.

These people do recruit children. They do use mentally retarded people as suicide bombers. They have sworn that the war will not end until we are all dead.

Comparing the Christian right with our enemies is just down right dishonest.

At least the author "hedges" (pun intended) his accusations in the final paragraph.



The administration has made it clear many times that the enemy is not Islam, in and of itself.

The enemy is that element who use Islam as an excuse to murder Westerners and destroy our civilization.

The author, using such terms as Curly, Larry, Moe to describe the three individuals with whom he disagrees and whom he also calls scum, and associates with all Christians, is not only unfair, but unethical.



I don't care about the book, but the claim made here about a Christian war against Islam is just absurd.

On the other hand, it is not absurd to think that there are many of us Americans of many religions or even no religion at all who are more than willing to kill those who would destroy us.

Conversion would be far less grisly, but I wonder what kind of hysterical article Hedges would write about that.

Ultimately, the article is just an thinly veiled excuse to smear the Republican Party and Christians.

That's really disgusting.

[edit on 2008/2/13 by GradyPhilpott]

reply to post by GradyPhilpott

---

Agreed, but I also thought it raised some interesting questions - particularly with regard to extremism in general, and not just the christian variety.

reply to post by Conspiriology

---

Despite all your posturing, still you refuse to reply to these specific points which I raised with you:



Still waiting.
And how could anyone have construed my post as being hateful towards Christians?



Well, how about trying to explain this one.
Why the deliberate attempt to misinterpret what I have posted?
I have never once stated that ALL Christians are extremist, or evil, or deserve to die.
Show me one example.
So why have you repeatedly tried to make out that I have,

Your repeated attacks on Atheists and Agnostics and your paranoid insistance that there is some sort of concerted plot to discredit Christianity is in serious danger of permanently de-railing this thread.

Whilst you may have come across conspiracy minded Atheists and Agnostics outside of ATS, I assure you that the vast majority of them on ATS, (of course there will always be the extremist minority!), have neither the time nor inclination to be involved in anything so ludicrous and would much prefer to discuss the spiritual, if anything at all.

I am an Agnostic and I have tried to take a stand in here against the smearing of Christians just as I try to take a stand against the smearing of Muslims.

I have seen threads with a lot of obnoxious Christian-bashing on ATS, I don't see it so much in this one though.

People here seem to be opposing religious extremism in politics in general, not any particular religion or even religion in general.

I don't see how this is offensive.

As far as I am concerned, people can believe whatever they believe; as long as they don't try to force their beliefs on me, it's none of my business.

reply to post by Freeborn

---

Do you read what you say? How am I suppose to understand this?

My response went directly to those on this thread that called "All Christians evil" I never said JACK to you at that point.


IT IS YOU WHO DOESN'T READ READ POSTS AS THIS IS THE FOURTH TIME I HAVE EXPLAINED THIS TO YOU and it is the last as I am quite certain, I would be terribly embarrassed if I were you.

SEE BELOW YOUR "BRAND" Of Inductive arguments for critical thinking and illogical fallacy. I didn't want to do this but you give me no choice so I will once again.





You Told me I came in "Bludgeoning people" and calling "People" evil, is that what gave you the idea that I didn't know the OP didn't call ALL Christians evil? You said I thought I was the moral High ground?

What are you psychic?

This is what I said.




I said that to let you know I assumed no moral high ground. You insisted several times more that I did. YOU CALLED ME ARROGANT IGNORANT CONCEITED BIGOTED YOU ALLUDED TO THE SUGGESTION I WASN'T CURRENT WITH THE OP NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES I TOLD YOU OTHER WISE NOTICE AGAIN I ATTEMPT TO "CLUE" YOU IN AND SAY



THAT STILL DIDN'T WORK AND SO FAR IN THE THE THREAD I HAVEN'T EVEN ADDRESSED YOU IN SUCH A PERSONAL AD HOM ATTACK

So I decide you are too irrational after that last ad hom and let it go.

WHAT DO YOU DO!!! you LAY THREE MORE AD HOM'S
See BELOW:




So I bite my tongue and let you establish your character,,I never posted another word.

WHAT DO YOU DO ?? YOU POST^ YET AGAIN!! TELLING ME YOU GOT A BONE TO PICK WITH ME !! See Below:



Now at this point the only one doing the bludgeoning is YOU!
At this point several posters had already said Christians are the most evil no matter what kind they were. I had NOT ADDRESSED YOU AT ALL YET BUT TO SAY I WAS NO BETTER THEN YOU WITH MY MORALITY NOT ONCE BUT TWICE! MEANWHILE YOU ARE Issuing THIS SET OF INFRACTIONS ABOUT ME CALLING PEOPLE EVIL WHEN I HAVEN'T USED ANY ONES NAME YET FURTHERMORE I MADE THAT CLEAR TO YOU ALSO!

SEE BELOW:!


So Here we are and I have NOT said a damn thing about anything you posted so far to match your personal assaults. Then what did I say next??

I TRIED YET AGAIN TO AVOID YOUR VITRIOLIC ARGUMENTS WITH THE NEXT POST:
SEE BELOW:



Did you READ THAT?? I said I had not said a THING! about you, I had not cast any aspersions about your "Moral low Ground" YOU put ME UP there on the High Ground and I TRIED to diffuse that attempt but you INSIST on acting like you've been my emotional floor mat no matter how gracefully I tried to avoid that kind of discussion with you on a tirade.

In Fact Freebored,, The first post you make to me YOU MAKE AS IF I HAD ALREADY ASSAULTED YOU WITH SOME EXCHANGE OF EXPLETIVES AND I HAD NOT ADDRESSED YOU AT ALL WITH THE ANGST AGRESSION YOU HAVE ME.!

SEE BELOW:


Then if that isn't enough scroll down and I responded quite legitimately because SO FAR the only ones that was seeing this backwards was YOU!

You implied I was calling people evil and I STILL WITH ALL THE CIVILITY I COULD MUSTER WHAT DID YOU SAY!!

THIS!! SEE BELOW:




Now,, If you were me,, YOUR DAMN CHIN WOULD HIT THE FLOOR AFTER YOUR INCESSANT INSISTENCE> INSTIGATING WITH A LITANY OF AD HOM,, YOU SEEM TO BE SUGGESTING THAT IT IS I.

Do I snap ? Do I take the bait the silly straw man you are trying to setup and go ballistic so that you could say "I never said YOU I said "some of the Christian posters".

Well it didn't work and I asked you quite civilly,,



Now up to this time I still haven't accused YOU of saying anything like you are attempting to "bludgeon" out of me.

You have made so many allegations THAT YOU ARE GUILTY OF and I have just proven it unequivocally and absolutely without a doubt and it is UNDENIABLE

EVEN WHEN I TOLD YOU I PUT YOU ON IGNORE (SOMETHING I SHOULD NEVER HAVE CHANGED SETTINGS) I get a u2u that you are "waiting" for an answer when I WAS GONE!

Not only that my patient poster,, YOU DEMAND I ANSWER YOU WHEN IT IS OBVIOUS YOU COULDN'T EVEN WAIT FOR YOURSELF TO GET DONE BEFORE DEMANDING IT! YOUR POST GOES ON AND ON AFTER THAT.

THEN YOU MAKE AN EMOTIONALLY CHARGED POST INSTIGATING SOME SENSATIONAL SPECTACULAR ASSUMPTION THAT I EDITED YOUR QUOTE TO MAKE YOU LOOK BAD

AS IF I NEEDED TOO?

You Got Johnson

- Con


[edit on 13-2-2008 by Conspiriology]

By the way Freeburn,, When EVER I see Atheists pulling a Sam Harris stunt and start bum rapping Christians and it happens to be the same "Crew" who have nothing better to do then make Christians and Christianity the center of there world with willful want and disregard for a GENUINE discussion but rather to act as agent provocateurs antagonistic to Christians for its own sweet sake,,

Count on me seeing that for what it is

I think All Christians should know

just how to NOT defend us

but expose Neo Atheism

Ill be there

- Con

When's the last time a rabbi or a iman was accused of pedophilia?

That aside, I see your point. people do what they do not because of their religion but inspite of it. Christian armies which march across the bones of their enemies are no more saintly than Muslim armies which do the same. Most importanly, Christian vigilanties are certainly no less guilty than Muslim vigilanties when they pick and hit a target.

But calling christians the deadliest coalition in world history...that's pushing the envelope just a bit.



[edit on 14-2-2008 by Toelint]

I take the most banal 5 words off the top of a paragraph and somehow YOU get the idea that it will prove a conspiracy against Christians and that YOU are an agent of that alleged conspiracy LOL

If I wanted to do that, I would have imported all your posts like I have with Maddinmysoul and made a database with Threads of other Mythical Beings he doesn't Bother with and ONLY the Christian God does he join in to make the same allegations about us being child abusers and the ever present post about the Crusades amd Blah Blah Blah..

I do that to save my friends from wasting precious time explaining to him what invariably has been explained before and he refuses to accept any and I mean any answer MERELY because it does'nt have anything to do with his presence in the discussion.

Then they have something to decide and those that ignore the advice

Get more of the same from him.

So THAT is what the difference is.

Now,, you better sit down for this one,,,,

You Ready??




HOW ABOUT YOU SHOW ME WHEN I EVER SAID YOU DID!

I DIDN'T!!! NOT ONCE DID I PUT A WORD IN YOUR MOUTH,

SO PLEASE STOP THE FALLACY STOP THE INSTIGATING STOP THE LIES.




I can't and ya know why

BECAUSE I NEVER SAID YOU DID!

-Con

Has anyone ever thought that what they dislike about a person's religion is actually just the person? If a person is an ass it really doesn't matter if they are a Christian, atheist, or Muslim ass. An ass is an ass plain and simple. There is a good chance that this same person who gets all in your face over whether god exists or not would most likely do the same over politics or even what kind of lawn mower is the best.

It is funny though when we talk about religion, or lack of, it is not the person but the religion/no religion.

Let’s just take this and put it to politics…

If got all in your face and told you all the great things about Bush and then verbally attacked you if you even minutely disagreed do you blame Bush for my actions, or do you just see me for the ass that I would be?

Think about that…

I have spent a lot of time in Iraq and I’ll spend a lot more time over there, but when I see one Muslim that kills others even children for his version of his religion I see an evil man and not a evil religion.

Well lol I don't think you framed the question in a manner where you could make a clear distinction between the two when it seems I am going into the discussion already thinking Bush is an ass.

I think I get where you are going with this nevertheless and I would know from experience because my Brother is a Bush Fan and he and I don't talk to each other. He hates all muslims and thinks they would kill us all.

The ones in America are biding there time but we should get them out of our country. He thinks the reason we haven't been attacked since 911 is because of Bush and his leadership.

*Vomiting*

He keeps harping on the Terrorists are coming the terrorists are coming,,

Lions and Tigers and Bears

OH MY!



- Con



[edit on 14-2-2008 by Conspiriology]

My point exactly...