David Myatt and Islam

I am doing some research at the moment into the relationship between Muslim extremism and the far Right.

A few years ago a guy called David Myatt announced to the world that he was converting to the muslim faith. Up to that point he had a strong involvement with various neo-nazi political groups. It made quite an impact in the UK press at the time, but since then I have heard nothing. The only information from independent sources that I can find is this:

rigorousintuition.yuku.com...

and this:

www.declarepeace.org.uk...

Please help out if you can find anything else on this.

I hate to be so blunt, but this guy is clearly very, very lost. I'll never, ever understand it when white Europeans discard their cultural heritage in favour of an alien religion. Of course, these people have the right to choose their religion and I'd never try and infringe upon that, but I'll still find it strange.

reply to post by fosdyke

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This person is a cyber-stalker, who's been posting this same message - full of errors - on forums and blogs wordlwide.

His (?her) aim is to give links to biased sites containing biased articles about Abdul Aziz ibn Myatt, while pretending to ask for information. It's thus just a sly attempt to spread malicious allegations about the person while hiding behind anonymity.

He makes the idiotic claim that he can "only find" the links he gives - while anyone "doing some research" would have found the Wikipedia article about Myatt which gives a fairly balanced over-view of the man and link for further research:

en.wikipedia.org...

Anyone "doing some research" would also have found a link to The Times article about Myatt, and so on and so on.


Anyone "doing some research" into the alleged relationship between Muslim extremism and the far Right would have found Professor George Michael's book on the subject, which has a lot of info about Myatt.

www.kansaspress.ku.edu...


The errors of this troll include:

(1) "he announced to the world". Wrong - Myatt kept quiet about it for nearly two years.

(2) "It made quite an impact in the UK press at the time". Wrong. It went unnoticed until two years later, after Myatt featured on BBC Panorama program about Copeland. Even then, there were only a few articles about Myatt.

(3) "since then I have heard nothing". Wrong. Like I said, he missed the full page article in The Times newspaper, and Myatt's Q&A session Sheikh Qaradawi's website, and Myatt's interesting article "From Neo-Nazi to Muslim" which has appeared on many Islamic websites, including recently one in the UK, and one in Thailand.

(4) "The only information from independent sources..." Wrong. Neither of the quotes sources are independent. One just repeats rumor and disinformation, giving no sources; the other is a political organization which has been posting unsubstantiated allegations about Myatt for twenty years, and which is itself rumored to be linked to Britain's MI5 (see the Wikipedia article about this "Searchlight" group for more info).

reply to post by Cythraul

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It's not just Europeans. Madonna did it here in America.

She converted to Judaism and adopted a fake British accent as far as I recall.

reply to post by raffy9

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Good call on the troll.

[edit on 17-4-2008 by Sublime620]

reply to post by raffy9

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I think we have a 'pot and kettle' situation here. It was me who made the polite initial requests for help and in virtually every instance I have been followed to these message boards and insulted by the person who is stalking me. You will notice that in most cases, my detractor is a brand new member and has presumably registered for the specific purpose of attacking my work. He has stalked me to all these different message boards (and more).

www.bloglines.com...,8827
www.defendingthetruth.com...
libcom.org...
www.abovepolitics.com...
www.politicsforum.co.uk...
www.bnvillage.co.uk...
www.blackpresence.co.uk...

One is prompted to ask why anyone would be so concerned about David Myatt that they would join all these message boards just to snipe at one insignificant posting amongst thousands. Why the frantically obsessive attempts to suppress two harmless links. Someone must be very frightened of what the 'Searchlight' and 'Declare Peace' articles contain.

In answer to some of the accusations made against me:

Yes I have made the same posting on different message boards the world over. That is how the internet works. If one is seeking out information, the web is a massive resource and it doesn't make sense to limit the search to my own locality. I made the same posting on different forums because that is how computers work – why type out different versions? Whilst you may not like the links I posted, they are at least demonstrably written by someone other than Myatt himself – which is perhaps what all this hostility is really about. I can't begin to imagine why you think links to texts that are clearly written by Myatt himself – or have some input from him – could ever be classed as 'independent resources'. Clearly they are not independent by any measure.

Finally, the situation regarding the 'Wikipedia' is a little more complex. There was a case recently, where a relatively well known musician had posted details about his life on Wikipedia. Due to to the interactive nature of this resource, one of his 'fans' repeatedly rewrote the entry with 'facts' which were a direct contradiction to the man's real life. The musician corrected these mistakes time and again, but his 'fan' was so persistent, that in the end the subject of the article had his life circumscribed by a stranger! It works both ways of course. If the subject of an entry is persistent enough, they can suppress information about themselves. The last I heard was that this was becoming such a problem, that certain categories of entry would lose the 'interactivity' which makes Wikipedia such a unique resource. Don't get me wrong, Wikipedia is wonderful for all uncontested areas of knowledge, but for anything contentious, I would always be concerned about missing information.

reply to post by fosdyke

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Anyone of any sagacity can see right through your "polite request" for info - as I pointed out in my first reply to your initial post.

Instead of answering the points I made about your post being just a trick to spread malicious rumors and allegations about Myatt, you now just use the tired old Usenet-type tactic of making accusations against me, of trying to shift the focus away from your factual errors, of which there are many.

So, what about the many factual errors contained in your original short post?

Thus, I repeat my points:

1) If you really are doing some serious research, then you would have found far more than the two spurious so-called "independent" items you linked to. Items such as books by Professor Kaplan, and Professor Michael.

2) If you had done even some preliminary, elementary research you would have found that Myatt did not "announce his conversion" to the world, as you claimed.

3) What about your error that "It made quite an impact in the UK press at the time..."? It went unnoticed for almost two years.

4) What about your error that "since then I have heard nothing..." ? Like I wrote, you missed the full page story in The Times newspaper; you missed Myatt's question and answer session on Sheikh Qaradawi's website. You missed an awful lot more.

5) What about your erroneous claim that the two sources you could find (obviously your Google or Yahoo searches are very different from mine) are "independent"? They are not independent in any shape or form. One makes the claim - without providing any evidence - that Myatt was/is an MI5 agent), and one is a political organization which even many on the Left in Britain find somewhat dubious because of its (alleged) links with MI5 and its past divisive actions within the Left. The people at Searchlight are just part of The Fourth estate: they do not deal in facts, but in innuendo, smear, allegations and assumptions.

As for the allegation that Myatt is MI5, this has now been taken further, with claims that he's a 5GW operative (wow!) - but again, proof is lacking. It's just assumption.

See

www.skilluminati.com...

and

aboutmyatt.wordpress.com...


So, the conclusion is - due to all these errors and mistakes - that your post is just a ruse to spread unsubstantiated allegations about Myatt. If it was not, you would at the very least have given some other links which balanced the biased view of Searchlight - which, BTW, never presented any evidence for their allegations, ever. Check out:

aboutmyatt.wordpress.com...

What are you talking about? how do you think all other major religions came to white people? They converted.

reply to post by raffy9

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Sorry Raffy, but I think you are falling into the same trap as in your previous post – trying to foist your definition of what an independent source is, onto the minds of other people. I didn't mention The Times link because it is so common I think everyone must have seen it by now. As for the others, I have read the texts you suggest and rejected them long ago. The final link you provide in your post merely opens up yet more links written by Myatt himself. What exactly are you trying to do here? Do please stop following me around the internet; it looks creepy!

You mean like when the pantheistic pagan religions were discarded in favour of Christianity?

Apostasy occurs, live with it.

That said, the thing I find odd is how can this bloke convert to Islam while still being a member of the racist National Front party. He would have to start chanting slogans to get himself thrown out of the country!

Anyone for hypocrisy?

reply to post by fosdyke

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Regarding your ludicrous claim that I am trying to foist "my" definition of what an independent source is onto others, it it just that: ludicrous, because it was you who claimed your two sources were "independent" and therefore it was and is for you to define what you mean by independent, which you have failed to do

You seem to fail to notice (or maybe only pretend not to so notice) that I gave no definition, just queried your claim of your "sources" being "independent".

You have failed to address the problem of the many factual errors in your initial post - and instead resort to trying to shift the focus away from your errors and make the silly claim that I am, by replying, somehow "stalking you"!

Recall that it is you have posted anonymous messages about Myatt all over the Internet, which messages are full of factual errors and silly claims (e.g. about "independent sources") and which thus seem to imply something devious on your part, especially when - with the errors pointed out - you attempt to set up a smokescreen.


Furthermore, if you really were seriously interested in doing the research you mentioned you would not hide behind anonymity, would give a contact address, or would at the very least have posted on the well know Muslim Islamic Awakening forum, where Myatt himself regularly posts, and where you could engage in a polite discussion with other Muslims about him. That you have failed to do this is very very interesting indeed, and just confirms your somewhat devious intent.

I'll have to find some sources to confirm this, but this is what I have heard:

Basically, Myatt wants revolution in the UK. He's still committed to the far-right, but he's willing to use other groups as useful scapegoats which further his aims. Think "Strategy of Tension", only orchestrated by an exceptionally smart and dangerous outsider, instead of a government.

Myatt was allegedly a high-up in the Order of Nine Angels - a distinctly nasty British Satanist organization (for the record, I have no problem with the Church of Satan or Temple of Set apart from the fact many of their members are douchebags - but in the case of the ONA they are mystical fascists) who preached social Darwinism among other things. He was also a high-up in Combat 18, the neo-Nazi terrorist organization.

I think his switch to Islam is nothing more than an attempt to rope in potential Muslim radicals and unleash them against the British government. Add enough pressure and chaos from Muslim radicals and either the government collapses or else passes policies that echo what groups like the British National Party have been saying all along - in essence, a nationalist government of the sort Myatt approves of steps in to stop the chaos by any means necessary.

Its a pipe dream of course. Myatt's very smart, but he doesn't have the influence or contacts he would need to pull something so audacious off. But still, it shows the disturbing potential for alliance among the far-right and extremist Muslim groups, and so should serve as a warning.

Thanks Rogue Element – good post with some interesting information.

I can confirm that the 'Social Darwinist' activities of ONA are very much ongoing. One member in particular is running a long term ID theft scam on disability message boards. He steals home addresses from letters on the victims hard disc. Then sets up a campaign of long term harassment surrounding the disabled person's home, using local thugs. I know personally of a woman on one of these disability message boards – in remission from cancer – who was effectively bullied to death by this Satanist creep. They wouldn't leave her alone, she had a relapse and died.

See this link for how it operates on BBC Message Boards:

www.indymedia.org.uk...

Also this one, for more details on how the same man is operating the scam in a wider context on ethnic message boards:

publish.indymedia.org.uk...


My post 'Harassment':

www.abovetopsecret.com...

is a warning about this. There are many examples of disabled people being hounded to their deaths by exceptionally long and tenacious campaigns of harassment from local 'children'. It is not beyond the realms of possibility that some of this is being organised by this same hacker.

Thanks Rogue Element – good post with some interesting information.

I can confirm that the 'Social Darwinist' activities of ONA are very much ongoing. One member in particular is running a long term ID theft scam on disability message boards. He steals home addresses from letters on the victims hard disc. Then sets up a campaign of long term harassment surrounding the disabled person's home, using local thugs. I know personally of a woman on one of these disability message boards – in remission from cancer – who was effectively bullied to death by this Satanist creep. They wouldn't leave her alone, she had a relapse and died.

See this link for how it operates on BBC Message Boards:

www.indymedia.org.uk...

Also this one, for more details on how the same man is operating the scam in a wider context on ethnic message boards:

publish.indymedia.org.uk...


My post 'Harassment':

www.abovetopsecret.com...

is a warning about this. There are many examples of disabled people being hounded to their deaths by exceptionally long and tenacious campaigns of harassment from local 'children'. It is not beyond the realms of possibility that some of this is being organised by this same hacker.

Some time ago, I read a message board post which said that David Copeland had converted to Islam. It was claimed that this happened soon after he was sentenced for the murder and maiming of innocent people in the Admiral Duncan, Brick Lane and Brixton, nail bombings. See:

www.declarepeace.org.uk...

for the background to these atrocities.

Has anyone seen confirmation of Copeland's conversion from any independently verifiable source (newspaper report, news agency etc.)?

Incidentally, the original Searchlight link:

rigorousintuition.yuku.com...

seems to be down intermittently.

A more reliable one can be found here:

rigorousintuition.yuku.com...
Which is part of this interesting article:

osdir.com...

reply to post by fosdyke

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This guy is a serious serial stalker, who anonymously posts libelous information about Myatt - or who tries to be clever and links to other libelous information.

He's been posting the same stuff about the same person for years on forums all over the world. All anonymously of course. How very heroic.

His latest paranoid wheeze is about Myatt hacking into the computers of disabled people and then harassing them.

He's been asked many times to debate these lies of his on the Islamic Awakening forum where Myatt's Muslim friends can reply to him in person. He's hasn't done so and we all know why.

He's been asked many times to give the Police incident number since he alleges he's reported claims of such hacking to the Police. He hasn't done so - because he hasn't got one and is a fantasist.

He gives no evidence whatsoever for any of his claims - only links to sites which make allegations without providing evidence.

reply to post by fosdyke

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This person posts anonymous message after anonymous message, year after year, about David Myatt, and refuses to even anonymously debate with Muslims, on a public forum, about his accusations, knowing that he would then be exposed for the stalker, and the fantasist, that he is.


Now, if Myatt really was as this stalker portrayed him, then stalker should be very, very, worried, due to one or more of the following

1) Myatt would using his so-called hacking skills find out the identity of the stalker, and send some of his neo-nazi heavies round to have a word or two and offer some suitable advice.

2) He would get some of his Satanist chums and chumesses to put a Satanic curse on the stalker, bringing a debilitating iillness (at the very least) to the stalker and ensuring at the very least that the stalker suffers some serious "bad luck".

3) He would arrange, using his criminal contacts, for the stalker to have "an accident".

Many people have seen through his fantasies, and some of his postings have been deleted from some of the forums he's posted on.

You see it allot, neonazis who hate jews so much that they love everything that is anti-jewish too, even if it goes against their nazi ideology.